18 Comments so far

1. professorbates February 15th, 2007 4:29 pm

   The world should remain vigilant to ensure that a free press, a free political system and a mixed economy where property rights are respected remain in place in Venezuela.

   If Chavez infringes on any of these rights, it should be vigorously protested and condemned. But so far it hasn’t happened.

   Bart Jones, a staff writer at Newsday, of Long Island,

   NO!NO!NO!

   Any effort by agents of capitalism in this case(RCTV television) to confront the spreading of progressive ideology is guilty of propaganda. For instance, when you spread the word of the revolution and tell people that there is no choice in the free market system and someone asks you to prove it, you must immediately interrupt such agent of capitalism by loud, mantra-like pronouncement: propaganda! Observe how the agent of capitalism cowers like a slug sprayed with salt. Then you should go on explaining that forced labor is the only option under any system. If you detect no more resistance in the audience, proceed to explain that only under socialism forced labor can benefit everybody equally, inmates and guards alike, and that it makes socialism morally superior to profit-making. We must spread the word because otherwise no sane man will come up with such ideas on his own. Make sure you don’t think of your own words as propaganda. It’s not. It’s called “conditioning the masses for the revolution.”

2. Gail February 15th, 2007 5:51 pm

   “If RCTV were operating in the United States, it’s doubtful that its actions would last more than a few minutes with the FCC.”

   Yeah, no kidding!

   And while we’re on the topic of totalitarianism, are the viewers aware that something was slipped into the latest re-authorization of the PATRIOT ACT that allows the Justice Department to call upon Federal District Judges for their resignations or fire them for no reason, and then put into place their own choices of Judges without approval from Congress?

   I have to laugh at some of the idiots in our own Congress when they condemn Chavez for not renewing the RCTV license while our own FTC wants to place our programming and the peoples bandwidth in the hands of a few elitist media conglomerates. These people are so out-of-touch with reality, they’re pathetic.

   And, returning to the forced resignations and/or firing of the federal judges, does this not resonate totalitarianism like the executive “signing statement” and the concept of “executive orders”? Have you seen these terms mentioned in our Constitution that insists our country has three “co-equal” branches of government?

   Do you really believe we’re not living in a totalitarian state?

3. Ken Mitchell February 15th, 2007 7:01 pm

   One thing. Chavez was given the power to rule by decree. This is how Hitler became a dictator. The German chancellor had the power to rule by decree. This is what Hitler did.

4. blessthebeasts February 15th, 2007 7:11 pm

   To the Professor: it is obvious that profit-making capitalism has not worked for the majority of the population of Venezuela. The
   wealthy elites obviously loved it and are despairing its demise. Chavez is trying to run the economy to benefit the majority who have long been oppressed. You can call it socialism but it is not the socialism of the USSR, as Bart Jones noted. He is trying to use the resources of the country to lift up the society as a whole and has already had a positive effect on the poverty-stricken. It is a work in progress and an incredible challenge, but I for one hope it succeeds.

   It was the coup that has forced the government to take the actions it has because we all know they’ll try again.

5. Interested February 15th, 2007 10:51 pm

   Although I am not sure I understood the professor ? bates’ ramblings; I think I caught the gist of it.
   The Professor seems to think that he understood the article and also that he has some insight to share regarding the article but I suspect neither is true.

   And Ken Mitchell’s words, while pithy, are perhaps spoiled by that very brevity and lack all meaning. I might point out that the present US administration has recently been found guilty on several occassions of “ruling by decree”.

   I would accuse them both of being shills if I didn’t know how strongly slanted and disingenuous most of the stories printed in the US papers are regarding the situation in Venezuela. Bart Jones’ article seems to strike a reasonable balance and he points out that the fears of Chavez trampling on people’s rights have not materialized.

   I am always surprised by those who rush to criticize the Chavez administration when most who have made any study of it find themselves impressed by his amazing ability to walk the middle ground. Here is a man beset on all sides by long entrenched interests and those with money yet he is now beginning to win them over to his side while still raising the literacy rate among the poor, providing vastly improved medical services, building subsidized housing, maintaining and improving infrastructure and managing to recover at the same time from a debilitating strike at the national oil company some years earlier. There are virtually no media sources in Venezuela which dispose favourably to him but he has managed to win election after election and his approval rating is sitting near 70%.
   OK class _ please contrast. (US vs Venezuela) _ making use of your knowledge of media influence.

   A study made of Germany in the lead up to the 2nd world war would not find many parellels with Venezuela today.

6. Gilberto_25 February 16th, 2007 9:47 am

   Mr. Bart Jones I read your article “Chavez Remains Far from a Dictator” but I cannot agree at all with what you said. Chavez has taken several steps by which he should be considered a dictator.
   Let’s take as true everything that you have said about RCTV (participated in a coup, the blackout during the countercoup, the participation in the strike in the year 2002/03 etc.) but Venevision and Televen, the two other big media stations in Venezuela, also did the only difference between them and RCTV is that they changed their editorial line. Today they have no problem with the government. I would also invite you to see Venezolana de Television (a channel owned by the state) this TV station is constantly attacking, insulting and mocking any person that dares to speak against the government.
   Chavez also controls the 5 powers that make up the Venezuelan Government (Executive, Legislative, Judicial, Electoral, and Citizen).
   The Citizen Power is headed by the District Attorney which is appointed by the President, and Chavez decided to appoint his former Vice President. Can you imagine Dick Cheney as District Attorney for the Bush Administration?
   Chavez also controls the Legislative Power, every Congressman in the National Assembly forms part of the Pro-Chavez platform, by the way it was elected with 22% of the registered voters. These Congressmen seem to be more like Chavez’s employees than independent Congressmen, at some point the many of them have stated things like “we don’t agree or understand the decision taken by the President but we will not question it and we will support it.”
   But I would have to say that what is more surprising is what happened two or three years ago when the Supreme Court of Venezuela was pledge in, all of the Judges that form part of it stood up during Chavez’s speech and began to shout “UH AH Chavez will not leave”, a slogan used by Chavez during his campaign. Do you really think that the Supreme Court Judges in the United States would do something like that? What would you say if they all began to shout out remarks in favor of the Bush Administration?
   I would also like you to know that in the year 2003 those that opposed the Chavez Administration collected signatures to have a recall, which he ended up winning. Did you know that those who signed against the President can not find jobs or get loans from state ran institutions? Could you imagine not being able to work in NASA because you do not agree with the War in Iraq?
   Mr. Bart Jones I could go on and on stating how Chavez is slowly destroying the democratic institutions of Venezuela and concentrating the power around him. I wonder, if you do not consider this a new form of dictatorship than what is it?
   Gilberto Arends

7. drbnp48 February 16th, 2007 11:09 am

   I was in Cuba a couple of years ago on a church mission trip. There was a significant amount of new construction of hotels and such for the growing tourist business there. European companies had been able to work out some kind of a deal with the government that allowed them to do business in Cuba. The standard US corporate story line is that private enterprise can’t do business in Cuba. That’s simply not true.
   Chavez is appearently trying to balence the creation of services for his people with doing business with the corporate world. The corporate elite can’t stand it!
   The idea of governing by edict and the elimination of term limits is a significant step towards a totalitarian state. That is a bad sign.

8. ezeflyer February 16th, 2007 12:44 pm

   Gilberto_25:

   It looks like Chavez has taken a page out of the Bush playbook. SCOTUS may not say UH AH, but they are in Bushs pocket just the same, as were (are?) both of our Houses of Congress, the Justice Dept., the EPA, Interior, the Pentagon and every other federal and state government agency.

   Chavez merely reacted to Bush attempts to assassinate, imprison, depose and demonize him, to the bribing of anti-Chavez groups and to his oligarchs attempts to destroy him and re-make Venezuela into a piss-poor third world country despite its oil riches.

   BushCo does not have an equivalent of RCTV, unless you count little Air America, but he has FOX and most all the others including NPR.

   And what happened to those who opposed Bush–Wilson, Plame, Clark, etc.?

   For every action, there is an opposite and equal reaction.

9. Gilberto_25 February 16th, 2007 2:08 pm

   Ezeflyer,
   About the Supreme Court about 5 years ago the Supreme Court in Venezuela made a decisions that did not favor Chavez, Chavez asked or ordered the National Assembly to increase the number of judges in the Supreme Court and elect and new Supreme Court and they did it. As you in that single action the Executive Branch intervened in both the Legislative and the Judicial Branch. That is only one example. He has also said lets change the Venezuelan flag and they did it, he has said give me the rule by decree and they did it, and like these examples many others.

   Second Chavez has claimed humdreds of times their is an assasination plot against him. He has said claimed that they have detained people, he has shown the weapons they were going to use on TV. Those people that have been detained have never appeared on TV, the District Attorney has never oppened an investigation against them, and everyone would forget about the matter after 2 weeks. Those actions make me question the reality behind his claim.

   It’s true that for the past 40 years that government has been in control of the oligarchs like you said, which is still what is happening now. The oligarchs that work for the government or with it are still benefiting from the government, but besides them there is a new group of oligarchs (those that have supported Chavez). Now if you go to a Public Hospital in Venezuela (were you do not have to pay at all) these do not work at all, same with the Public School (by the way public hospitals and schools were not created by Chavez)

   I do agree with you it is sad that there is no real independent media in the United States, and I will also agree with you that any TV station that opposed Chavez during the past 9 years did it thinking of their own interest. Yet I do have to say that those who changed their Editorial Lines have been pardoned, while RCTV which has only one program from Monday to Friday that talks about politics will be taken out of the air.

   True Bush is not the best example of a democrat, never tried to make it sound like that, but if he ever did half of what Chavez has done to control power I am more than sure that you would be just as irritated as I am.

10. ezeflyer February 16th, 2007 3:49 pm

    Gilberto_25:

    The overwhelming majority of Venezuelans love Chavez and the overwhelming majority of people here (and abroad) loathe Bush. Are they wrong?

11. Gilberto_25 February 16th, 2007 5:36 pm

    Ezeflyer
    It’s more than just a majority problem, I have stated several facts about the Chavez government that I find alarming and frustrating (reasons why I am not a Chavez supporter and most likely would not make you a Chavez supporter). I do not want to simplify it in a majority or minority problem like you did, I would rather hear a response from you to the claims that I have stated.

    First, from what I have read I feel that you believe that I am a Bush supporter, no I have never been one for many reasons. First I am not from the United States, so I do not follow US politics as much (that’s why I had to research to find out what was Air America, SCOTUS, Bush–Wilson, etc.) I also consider that in the end whoever wins, Democrats or Republicans, it is the elite that run your country. I am not a conservative and I form part of a progressive movement, far from what Bush’s ideals are.

    Now since you have asked the question if the majority is wrong or right, I would have to say that several times through out history the majority has been wrong and I would say ignorance is a huge reason why.

    There are reasons why I would say people still support Chavez in Venezuela, one is that in his speech he has decided to include those that where ignored for the past 40 years, these people where never taken into account and today find themselves that someone is talking about them and maybe even for them. Several times when I watch the news I hear and see people protesting and saying things like “Chavez we were promised a house and never got it, we know it’s not your fault it is the Minister that you appointed who is not responsible and he is deceiving you.”

    Second Chavez has several populist policies; this has been typical for the past 40 years in our oil producing country. This in the end does this not benefit Venezuela nor the Venezuelans; you are giving them the fish not teaching them to fish.

    I would also like you to know that in Venezuela in the public universities, which I stated previously are state financed (free) but are autonomous, elections are held to chose the Student Council, the Dean, and several other positions. These elections are highly politicized; every political party has their own candidates. In these universities the candidates that oppose Chavez win overwhelmingly, its just curious that people that are receiving higher levels of education do not support Chavez. By the way the students enrolled in these universities vary from children whose parents are making minimum salary to children of the richest people in Venezuela.

12. allan February 18th, 2007 11:01 pm

    When Chavez starts accusing other nations of having WMD or harboring “terrorists” as a pretext to invasion, I’ll start to worry about him.

    In the meantime there is this other guy who has already done all that and wants to start even more fights and he has just about all the attention I can muster right now.

13. blessthebeasts February 19th, 2007 5:23 pm

    Gilberto–I am curious what your solution would
    be to the situation in Venezuela, as well as the rest of Latin America, where the poor, indigenous populations have been oppressed for
    hundreds of years? Chavez and other populist
    leaders are at least trying to address these
    problems.

14. Gilberto_25 February 19th, 2007 9:28 pm

    Blessthebeasts,
    Just want to let you know that Chavez has been in power already for 8 years, today more than ever I see homeless people on the streets, eating from trash cans, I also want to let you know that I live in the state Zulia we have one of the largest indigenous population of Venezuela. It the municipalities of Mara and Paez, inhabitated almost entirely by the Wayu Indiands, 2 to 3 children die every day there - starve to death, or for different types of diseases. Its been eight years and I see no solution at all for them.
    Speaking about the problem with out really taking actions to solve them, like Chavez does, is not really addressing the problems. I am curious to know, since you stated Chavez has addressed these problems, what ways has he addressed it? Can you please state the facts, in order to make I statement you should back it up. But I have certainly not seen it.

    I do not have the solutions for all the problems that Venezuela faces today, just like you do not have the solutions to solve the problems your country faces.

    I stated in one of my previous post that education would be a good start, did you know that only 20% of the children that begin school in Venezuela end up graduating. I believe that true education is power, and only through education can the poor and indigenous from Venezuela really emancipate. I don’t believe that Chavez is doing that.

15. blessthebeasts February 21st, 2007 2:34 pm

    Gilberto–Thanks for your response. I said that Chavez is TRYING to address the problems
    of poverty in Venezuela. Having never been there, I only know what i have read and heard
    in the media, for example this post by Bart Jones. Last week on The NewsHour on PBS, there was a very balanced report by Margaret
    Warner. She noted there is still widespread
    poverty, but that the government has set up
    neighborhood health clinics and subsidized grocery stores in many barrios. I know this is not a total remedy to the situation, that’s
    why I asked what you think. The problem is so
    severe and goes back so far in history, I think it’s obvious it will take many years to
    actually turn around. Yes, Chavez has had eight years, but in that time has had to deal
    with the coup attempt and fierce opposition to
    changing the status quo. He is walking a fine line in trying to keep the economy strong and
    improve the lives of the poor. The jury is still out on whether he will be successful, but I believe he has the correct priorities.

16. Gilberto_25 February 21st, 2007 10:18 pm

    Blessthebeast,

    When talking about the situation of Venezuela I try to be as objective as possible, even though it might not seem like it after the post I’ve written. In family meetings, when I cat at the university, or when I am talking to my friends half of the crowd believes I am pro-chavez the other half knows I am against him.
    I will applaud every decision that he makes that I believe will benefit my country and the poor of my country. Sadly I beleive that his good decisions are overshadowed by the wrong ones.
    Yes it is true that he has set up clinics in the barrios, something that I believe was a necessity. I only hope he improves them to the point were they are able to perform small operations in them. Now on the other hand the large public hospitals have deteriorated during the past 8 years, they do not have the right materials to operate, the situation in them is deplorable.
    He has also created the subsidized grocery stores in the barrios, which I also think is great. I do not know the details of these because I have not been in one, I do not know how efficient they are or what kind of food products they offer, so from what I know I find them great.
    He has also improved the something that he calls a “mission” in which many Venezuelans have learned how to read and write, I find this very good too. My problems with this is that in 6 months they get a High School Diploma, something that I find absurd and I also as I stated previously he has not addressed the problem that only 20% of the children that get into school end up graduating.
    I am also happy that for the first time in maybe the past 20 or 25 years in Venezuela people are finally paying taxes. On the other side I do not see the benefits of these taxes.
    The problem that I find with Chavez is that he has tried to concentrate all of the power around him. I have stated in previous post how he controls the parliament, the supreme court, the district attorney, and the electoral power. Another problem is that he politicizes everything that he does, when you go to the “missions” you get a red t-shirt with different phrases in support of Chavez, if you do not wear this you do not get the education. He has, also as I stated previously, discriminated 3 million people that signed the petition to call for a referendum in Venezuela. You can not work for any of the government agencies unless you write a letter stating that you regret signing the petition.
    It is true that Chavez found a great opposition to many of the decisions that he has taken, but again he has control of every single branch of power that exist in Venezuela, he can do and he does whatever he wants.
    The coup - I actually believe there were two in two days -, that’s another story, were sadly we do not know what really happened, and partly it has been caused by the contradictory decisions and statements made by the own government, but I believe that the polical leaders of both the opposition and the government do not want us to know what happened. I could go on explaining but it would make this post longer, if you are interested I we could get in contact through e-mail or something and I find no problem at all.
    Just to end it, I also find frustrating that for the past 3 years the economy in Venezuela has been rising, but the benefit of it has stayed in the hands of the already rich and the new rich formed by this revolution. The minimum salary is still far from what the workers need in order to survive in Venezuela. As I told you the amount of homeless in Venezuela is amazing and the stituations of the indigenous, aside from getting 3 congressmen, is still the same. At the sametime the Rolls Royce is coming for the first time to Venezuela, its amazing the amount of hummers or porsche that today drive around the main cities of Venezuela. You see the ambigiouties of this Revolution, what Chavez says he defends is far from the reality.
    I find it very sad, I honestly would hope that everything he says and state would be real, but it is not, and it is something that you can only perceive if you live in Venezuela.
    Once again I tell you if you are really interested in the situation, or understanding my perspective of it, I can always get in contact with you through e-mail or something.

17. blessthebeasts February 22nd, 2007 4:59 pm

    Gilberto–I appreciate and respect your opinions on this matter, especially since you
    are actually living there; you have an advantageous perspective.

    I believe what you say about Chavez consolidating his control. It is potentially
    very troubling. I also believe that he has good reason to be paranoid, if you will. The
    elite ruling class does not want to give up
    their power and the privilege that comes with
    it. As has been shown, they will use illegal
    means, in collusion with the United States, to
    hold on to their control. The situation in Nicaragua, after the Sandinista revolution in
    1979 comes to mind. The government was fairly
    open in the first few years and was sincerely
    trying to make things better for the majority
    of the population. The wealthy classes didn’t like it and the Contras began to wreak
    havoc, in league with the U.S. government when
    Reagan was in office. The end result was that
    the revolution was destroyed and Nicaragua fell into deeper poverty than before. My point is that the capitalist free market model
    did not work there and has not worked in so many nations. Chavez is trying an alternative
    method and though not perfect by any means, it
    seems to have the interests of the majority at
    heart. I agree that there are many possible
    pitfalls which are more likely to occur with
    interference from outside the country. I also
    agree that education is key to success in any
    event and I appreciate your viewpoint. I only wish the best to you and your country.

18. bnpaviputete December 11th, 2007 9:06 pm

    titvekozecazo…

    expavazekenu…

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