41 Comments so far

1. RichM February 17th, 2007 3:39 pm

   This article is a powerful summation of the general character of our descent & degradation, in recent years. It’s possible to quibble with aspects of it, but hard to deny that the piece captures a great deal of the truth.

   Here’s a quibble: “A strategically placed voice of reason from a trusted figure here or there could have stopped this madness a lot earlier…”
   – I’d argue that it wasn’t really a matter of lacking a trusted figure here or there. Rather, that no such figure stepped forward was itself a result of definite social processes, all ultimately stemming from the concentration of wealth & power into fewer & fewer hands. As this process goes forward, only pliable sellouts like Colin Powell, or gangster-mafia types like Scalia, are elevated to high office (ditto for Bush-Cheney-Rice-Rummy-Gonzales-DeLay-etc, of course). All these figures are ultimately servants of big money, which, as it gains more & more control, allows only those individuals to rise, who bend to its will.

2. Shane February 17th, 2007 4:53 pm

   This is a great article, and I loved reading it; However, it is written from the mountain of historical perspective and not contemprary reason.
   It is time to stop dredging through the past. If David Green could write an equivalent article about today’s emerging statemen (like Bill Richardson…for 2008!), then his article would carry even more power.

3. LuckyTN February 17th, 2007 5:07 pm

   Got a little head up didn’t ya! This conflict in our government has been going on since the founding of our nation. Since FDR, the right has slowly been advancing its agenda. Reagan sped it up followed by GHWB. Clinton didn’t help much either. But Shrub is in a class by himself.

   Okay here’s the deal. RR (Ronald Reagan) began the dismantling of our safety stuff in government. The MSM was given a pass to do as it wanted. I really believe TV has a lot to do with the current state of the American psyche. Then too RR started this Me Generation thing with the absolute no regulation of capitalism. This stuff takes time and Shrub is just the inheritor of 27 years of right wing work.

   I don’t know if we can come out of this. I’ve fought these shits all my life, but people don’t want to hear it. They forgot that democracy is work, and it has to be done by every generation. I really hope the American citizenry gets really, really pissed off because that’s the only way things will change. It’s not too late; it’s just almost too late.

   The little backbone Democrats have to have their butts kicked over and over to do the right thing. They have to be sure (I can’t believe I’m saying this.) that the public won’t abandon them.

   I thought I hated Nixon, but the Shrub is a whole new thing for me. I despise him and have to keep telling myself all the time to have compassion for him. THAT IS DIFFICULT.

   Peace.

4. danielgeery February 17th, 2007 5:22 pm

   “Where’s the presidential candidate who’d rather lose the office than his or her principles?”

   Same place he’s been all along, Cleveland, Ohio.

   What I don’t get is why we don’t support him, advertise him, praise him to the heavens, and let the world know: This is our man!

5. danielgeery February 17th, 2007 5:24 pm

   Note on above: I didn’t realize html didn’t work here. Thus I encourage you to plug this url directly into your browser:

   http://www.votedennis.us/

6. observer February 17th, 2007 7:55 pm

   David Green says, “Expect your children and grandchildren to be very, very angry at you.”
   I doubt it. When 80% of people have standard of life, which is envy of the rest of the world, they care less about such little things as killing couple of millions of people now and then, especially if they are not us. When I first came to this country – 30 years ago – what did surprised me the most, was the number of flying American flags. The second surprise was pledge of allegiance, repeated by kids in school (every day) and then by congressmen, on the big stair in front of Capitol. As if children had bad memory and congressmen should not be trusted the next moment they take oath of office.
   From inside it seems to be OK, for I have never met an American, who would find it strange. Yet, it shows the lack of imagination of how we, Americans, are viewed from outside of Continental United States. And we are viewed poorly even from Puerto-Rico.
   My point is that Bush has made clear one all important failure of American people, the failure, which people way smarter than Shrub were able to hide for so long. American people fail the most demanding trial of them all, trial by prosperity and might. This is why I pray that current “prosperity” have a soft landing, while our might find its match ASAP.

7. blessthebeasts February 17th, 2007 8:01 pm

   I couldn’t agree more with danielgeery. I was
   feeling real depressed after reading this post. It’s all true and it made me feel quite
   helpless as an individual to be up against such greed and evil. But Dennis Kucinich is
   one leader who has been speaking the truth all
   along despite the fact that the corporate media will never broadcast his message. That’s why it’s up to each one of us and the progressive media to spread the word and maybe, just maybe, we the people can elect a president who truly represents us and our interests. Just a dream I have.

8. albert dean February 17th, 2007 8:25 pm

   I really enjoyed this article it mirrors much of my thinking. I have one point to add in regard to General Powell’s motivation… his son’s job with the FCC. It’s interesting to note it didn’t last much longer than his father’s tenure as secretary of state. I’d be interested in hearing other thoughts on this. Thankyou.

9. russwollman February 17th, 2007 9:33 pm

   Dear David,

   After reading your essay, I worked a bit to come up
   with a concise response to the questions you pose.

   You say a huge mouthful at the end of your piece with
   the idea that we get the government we deserve.
   Government is the product of national consciousness,
   the collective quality of all the life in the nation.

   If Colin Powell, Jerry Ford, and others did not see
   with perfect clarity that the choice they made to lie
   or remain silent could have the effect of causing more
   death—when instead they could have taken action
   favoring the truth and favoring life—then one obvious
   conclusion is that among the leadership, which derives
   from national consciousness, there is an absence of
   understanding of the value and the purpose of life.

   I have read that the US people search for purpose,
   that we have a culture which is simply falling with
   the sands of time. And in this modern US, the sands
   fall through the glass with almost exponentially
   increasing rapidity. Fast food, sound bite news,
   shallow entertainment, profits now and damn all
   obstacles to it—the quick fix is what it’s all about.
   We shoot first and ask questions later. It has been
   that way for a long time.

   Only a deeper, more profound knowledge of life will
   start to make amends. It is a spiritual lack—a lack of
   simple inner happiness among a culture which has been
   taught that the answers are all out there in the next
   purchase or the fattest bottom line; a lack of
   connection with the God-given intelligence which
   permeates all life everywhere; and a lack of
   connection to and deep understanding of the wholeness
   of life.

   Until national consciousness rises to a level of
   greater unity, intelligence, softness, and depth, we
   tilt at windmills looking outward for a political
   solution.

   I could write more. Instead, may I refer you to the
   following site,
   http://www.uspeacegovernment.org/?

   You have my promise that it will be worth your time to
   examine it.

   With best wishes for your continued efforts, and your
   own happiness, and my sincerest sharing of your
   concerns,

   Russ Wollman

10. albert February 17th, 2007 10:10 pm

    long story short… where do all the slaves go after thier freed? i guess they come here. i think they already are and most of them speak spanish (and african). i’ve had this vision, ask my wife, of hordes of many differant colored people pouring over all the borders, with the liberated ones helping them get a piece of the dream.

    the ones that escape the beast will try to come here and live in the land of the free and the home of the brave. they will be welcomed with guns and hatred, just like so many times before.

    but these immegrants will be savvy. they will have help and places to go when they get here. because they are intelligent and well connected, they will easily melt in to their communities.

    these communities will tell the corporate vampires to go get some sun. they will help each other by doing whatever he’s learned to do, and the others will do what they can do. and the ones that can’t do anything, can clean the dishes.

    it’s very possible to scale back enough to just live. no mortgage, no gas guzzler, no insurance, no electric bill, reasonable food and health care.

    we could starve the beast by simply learning to want what we have, without all the bling, right within us. to live with the plan of life we should cooperate with each other and stop competing so much.

    there are alot of people in the world who will work very hard to fight the war against the ism, americanism.

11. PJD February 17th, 2007 11:41 pm

    “When 80% of people have standard of life, which is envy of the rest of the world”

    Nonsense, nearly every country in Europe has a population that enjoys a better standard of living by multiple measures (leisure, education, health care, culture, life expectancy, infant mortality, job security…) than the US.

    SUV’s, shopping malls and debt-leveraged McMansions occupied by people who never can take a vacation do not a living standard make…

    And I’m not talking about the rust belt or Mississippi yet….

12. colleen February 17th, 2007 11:45 pm

    Yes this article is right about so many things that have gone wrong.

    But why was there no one who would stand up to the Bush administration and their supporters? It seems too easy to say it was because they wanted power and were willing to sell out.

    I think the Bush administration is truely dangerous and might be willing to take some even more violent steps to support their agenda.

    Just remember that hundreds of people have been picked up off streets by CIA agents and flown to nations that use torture. There are people within our US government who are willing to torture and at least 19 people have been tortured to death.

    Some individual cases have come to light, such as the case of Maher Arar in Canada and Khaled El-Masri in Germany.

    Both are innocent men who were taken off of the street in western nations and deported illegally to nations that use torture. Thats what people in our US government have done with the approval of the US government! And very few Americans care, if they even know about the use of torture on innocent people. Its sickening!

13. RichM February 18th, 2007 12:26 am

    colleen: you ask “Why.” OK, I’ll try to sketch out an answer. It’s because the main driving force of national policy is protecting the global position of US capitalism. (It’s not “values” or “principles” or “freedom & democracy” or any of that stuff.) When politicians talk about “our national interests,” they don’t mean your interests or mine. They mean the interests of the top corporate class — mainly Wall St, the military-industrial complex, & oil companies. That’s what the US govt is — a committee that’s put in office by those corporate interests, to serve them. But when politicos speak to the public, they translate all this into a language about “protecting ‘Murrican citizens, & spreading democracy.” It’s a code language.

    Now, the global position of the US is declining in a serious way. In the years after WWII, it was the world’s top dog — but no longer. Many other rival nations have learned all America’s tricks, & are now better producers than we are. We can no longer be #1 by purely economic competition. So, this country’s real rulers are faced with either accepting the nation’s declining competitiveness, or using the one area in which the US is still #1 — military force — to try to remain #1. Unsurprisingly, they have chosen the latter course. They want to use this one remaining trump card to seize control of Middle Eastern oil, then to use the power that comes from this, to remain “King of the Hill.”

    So, back to your question: the basic reason so few people had the guts to stand up to the Bush mob, is because the decline in the US global position pressures our rulers to behave in ever more desperate ways, to retain supremacy. In this kind of environment, standing up to bravely resist what’s desired by the big corporations (& their agents, the Bush govt) becomes ever more dangerous.

14. TheRadioHead February 18th, 2007 12:35 am

    OK, so now imagine you don’t even live in the US, and your resources are being given to sustain this declining behemoth empire before your own countries needs because of the Free Trade Agreement. Then imagine that all of your industry is being bought by American Corporations, and that all of your culture is usurped by the influx of US television, and that your government is crawling up the ass of this failing empire. That is what it is to live in Canada.

15. Michael Boyter February 18th, 2007 12:39 am

    Corruption, and absolute power, are one thing, This group, goes much further down the road than that. We are Talking Pure Demonic EVIL. The Gop and the BUSH clan have a history of EVIL going back to the Days of Prescott Bush Supplying the Nazi Luffwaffaa with raw materials for their war manufactuering. Osama Bin Laden, has been forgotten? Is he hanging out at the Crawford Ranch? How many Bin Ladens, have been to visit there in Crawford? Is it true Papa Bush was having lunch with Osama’s Brother when 911 happened? Why has every member of the United States Press Corps, other than the Progressive networks, been neutered? Its all about what Socrates said in Ancient Greece. Its as true today as it was then. “Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely.” Bush and Cheney have Lied, Stolen hundreds of BILLIONS, and Cost Thousands of LIVES. They are Soul-less, beings from the underworld. Anyone who Kills as freely and easily as they both do, and Torture’s and enjoys it, as much as bush cheney and the Fat Little smiking bastard gonzalles,do, are all Demons. They care nothing about people, life or any sense of what is right and just. They are sick evil creatures, worse of the Gollum in the Lord of the rings. Gollum has more soul, than any of them. We need Frodo to come to the rescue, and take their evil power away. I wonder which Politician will step forward, to speak up, or if Chuckel Nuts will Push the trigger on battle groups allready in place, and ready to pounce on what ever is in their path. The only thing this GOP group of corrupt, loosers know’s, is How to do is Kill. Its time to Make it a Treasonable offense if you lie, when your serving in political office, of any level in the USA. That will clean out all the rats quickly. Lets ask God For his Help to clean up this mess. He is our only Hope.

16. Rick February 18th, 2007 7:22 am

    Mr.Green points his finger almost exclusively at the baby boomer generation of which I am part of..
    We were a generation brought up to expect more because we were raised with more. We were the first generation raised with TV from the time we can remember, constantly bombarded with commercialism.
    We were of product of a generation (the so called greatest generation) who wanted to give us a better life, because they had lived through two world wars and a depression and it had scared them deeply!
    They spoiled us that is true.
    We are generation who grew up during the social upheaval that was the sixties.
    If you are old enough and I am you can remember the assassination of JFK and the murder
    Of his assassin live on TV by Jack Ruby. I remember walking home from school the day
    JFK was assassinated and seeing the flag at half mass and wondering what it was all about.

    You can remember the war protests and civil rights movement and daily body
    Counts on the evening news.
    The draft lottery numbers being posted on the bulletin boards in high school.
    And lucky ones this time around jumping with joy and not so lucky ones looking
    Like they had just been handed a death sentence.
    You can remember, the assassination of Bobby Kennedy and Martin Luther King.
    Think about that, three political assassination in 5 years. Someone didn’t want something to happen.
    I think that was Peace!
    So, anyways Mr.Green seems to think were generation that had it easy. Well I seem to remember it somewhat differently.

17. panamahead February 18th, 2007 8:01 am

    Articles like this is why this website is so great! I dont think the author could be any clearer in describing the countrys current state of leadership and how bad things can go when you have the equivalent of a group of drunken teenagers running the most powerful country in the world. This administration was and is unbelievably unfit, unqualified, and unequal to the task.

    I read Colin Powells book recently and the way he decided to go in the end seems like a huge insult and contradiction to his entire career and years serving this country. We know he was just being a good solider, but what happens when the commander in chief is less of a man than him!

18. Stephen V. Riley February 18th, 2007 8:25 am

    Great historical summary and critical analysis by David Green, but critical analysis ultimately never cuts it, only personal transformation. Here is where Russ Wollman has it right.

    What we are experiencing in America today is a clash between the forces of materialism and the forces of spirituality. Most Americans have come to only worship success, technology and individuality, thus they are incapable of transcending thought for the common good.

    What we need in America is more democracy. The dynamics of genuine participatory democracy is a distinct act of the human spirit. Only through a deeper spirituality and the pursuit for the common good can humankind find harmony and peace.

    Again, you cannot rest your case with great critical analysis alone. Critical analysis is only effective if it leads to personal transformation and a higher level of consciousness. This is a difficult thing to do unless we recognize the true conflicting nature of American culture.

19. Rick February 18th, 2007 8:32 am

    My apology for posting twice on the same article but I wanted to be sure to
    Add my support for Dennis Kucinich.
    What the progressives have to do is pull off an upset over
    The DNC establishment like they did in 72 with McGovern.
    If you have not seen the film “One Bright Shinning Moment the forgotten
    Summer” about McGovern’s run for the presidency in 72 I recommend
    It. It is an inspiration for all who support Dennis Kucinich.
    I believe he his the bright shinning moment of our time.
    We just need to change the final outcome.
    Here is a link to the films trailer http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6181791937824798148&q=George+McGovern&hl=en

20. fedupwithpolitics February 18th, 2007 10:59 am

    This analysis confuses several factors. First, the Baby Boomer generation was not, and is not a monolith. Apart from the “self-serving, self-interested” Boomers that you target, this generation also gave us probably the greatest number of social activists this country has ever seen. From African-American rights to women’s rights to anti-nuclear proliferation to environmental concerns, the Baby Boomers gave–time, energy, commitment, and, in some cases, their lives. Do not–I repeat–do not confuse these committed individuals with the likes of Bush and his rich friends. And there is the crux of the issue–your analysis completely ignores “class.” While Bush was going AWOL during the Vietnam war, my “self-serving” friends were dying in Vietnam. To attempt to give an overview of this or any war–and the people’s response to it–without bringing front and center a class perspective is, well, so academic.

21. colleen February 18th, 2007 11:50 am

    RichM

    I once believed in the US. I knew there were flaws, but nothing as bad as we are now seeing. Now the ugly side of the US has been fully exposed for all to see. I am still trying to deal with this new view of America, which you clearly give in your post.

    “In the years after WWII, it was the world’s top dog”–” RichM

    Yes the rest of the developed world’s largest economies had been seriously damaged by WWII which gave the US a tremendous economic edge. We were generous with the Marshall Plan and that helped us further in our relations with other nations.

    “the decline in the US global position pressures our rulers to behave in ever more desperate ways, to retain supremacy. In this kind of environment, standing up to bravely resist what’s desired by the big corporations (& their agents, the Bush govt) becomes ever more dangerous.” RichM

    That makes sense. That explanation fits the pattern we are seeing in the US.

    Rick and Fedupwithpolitics

    Imo this is a battle for America’s soul. They have a lot of money. We’ll see how the American people decide.

22. Uncle Buck February 18th, 2007 12:07 pm

    This is the first time I’ve read through the comments and found value in all of them. Peace and justice for ALL seems to be the common thread and I’d like to suggest that it won’t be found through capitalism. Capitalism is the cause of the global violent situation for which we despair today. Too often capitalism is equated with freedom. Darwin postulated that the stiffest competition for ALL living organisms comes from its own species. The foundation of capitalism is competition. The quest for mankind in spiritual terms is to overcome the competitive urges from the past and work for the common good of ALL life. So, the real question is how do we get there.

23. phantastikon February 18th, 2007 1:14 pm

    Political Suicides Needed

    Professor Green’s passion for his topic is welcome and, toward the end, he makes helpful gestures toward solutions: it is true that courage from our public figures (which Green identifies with “statesmanship”) might have altered our national course. Courage might even have engendered more courage, might have established a climate in which courage to criticize, to rant, to tell the truth publicly was a virtue.

    Where he misses the point, in my view, is in indicting two entire generations for allowing a supposed lapse from some ideal of public service that is just that: an ideal with no historical precedent. Politicians, whether in our government or in any government, have rarely exhibited the public courage Green desires. It is a sad realization that public speech rarely, if ever, enables public action: if Powell had come clean, resigned, hijacked the UN speech to denounce his masters, what then? We are still left with the problem of action. To borrow a lyric, “they’ve got the guns but we’ve got the numbers.” Cold comfort. They do, indeed, have the guns and clearly aren’t bashful about using them. Our numbers? Totally powerless because we literally have only small, ad hoc quasi-pulic forums. We’re not “public men,” and never will be.

    So, Green’s passion is inspiring but essentially neuter, and, if he’s been paying attention for the past few decades, he ought to know that.

    To make my point I’ll need to cite a large chunk of his essay. Please be patient:

    “It would be easy to cast the blame for our present predicament on a single ideological movement, or even a single generation, and it would not be wholly inaccurate to do so. The contemporary regressive right is without question a vicious cancer that has invaded the body politic to devastating consequences. Its predations were immensely facilitated by the self-reverential concerns of the Baby Boomers, who not for nothing were once called the Me Generation (that’s capital M, capital G, if you don’t mind). Rest assured, there are no statesmen today because to be one requires consciousness of others, sacrifice of self, moral sensitivity and historical sagacity, all qualities notably absent from this generation.

    It is not only the Boomers to blame, however, but their parents as well. Ironically, the so-called “Greatest Generation” – which was indeed great in many ways – was also responsible for at least two crucial mistakes that deeply haunt us today. One was to raise a bunch of self-serving, self-interested children, well-trained for the pursuit of happiness, but woefully unprepared for comprehending or sacrificing what is necessary to sustain and advance the greater good of the commonweal.”

    Well, then. Unable to (or unwilling to) take on a named ideology, Green takes a truly trivial position: we’re in this mess because of the moral or ethical or cultural laxity of two entire generations. What this means is it’s the fault of virtually everyone born since, let’s say, 1910. I’m forced to assume, since they’re not mentioned explicitly, post-Boom generations are exempted from his critique. What this argument reduces to, then, is that it’s all the fault of virtually everyone now living. And that is a trivial position to take. A position that is both useless and damaging.

    As fedupwithpolitics points out, those two generations produced protest, political and social action, and social change, as well. And they did that without the stature, standing, and public platform from which Professor Green’s courage is supposed to arise.

    Uncle Buck rightly assigns much of the blame for our current plight to our relative powerlessness to counter State-sponsored capitalism, and this is the main area in which I will take issue with Green’s analysis. For the most part, government’s uncritical acceptance of capitalism as a given in our country hasn’t even been publicly debated, much less questioned since, let’s say, 1910. When Green opines “It would be easy to cast the blame for our present predicament on a single ideological movement” in preparation for his indictment of two generations’ materialism, selfishness, and acquiescence in the rise of authoritarian control, I want to stop him and ask “Ok, try that; cast that blame and see what you come up with re:courage.”

    You want courage? You want statemanship? You want political suicide? Fine, but truth telling is an exercise in power and the “slightly powerful” (Powell, for example) understand, better than most, that capital trumps passion until it confronts the barrel of many, many guns. For me, it’s an open question as to what forces might bring about a doomed revolution in this country, but I’m convinced about the doomed part. Italian fascist “corporatism” only dreamed the totality of control that capitalism has achieved in the United States.

    Green’s conception of statesmanlike courage assumes a pulpit high enough, a crowd large enough, and a message self-evidently just enough to make a difference in the face of that control. OK, then. Please point out the pulpit, the audience, and the message. You will not be able to do that without also pointing out the ideological enemy. You won’t accomplish anything by indicting the entire audience. My advice? Begin again, Professor Green, and think about justice as the message

24. benforpeace February 18th, 2007 1:43 pm

    i also take offence at the accusations and indictment of these generations. being too late a boomer(1963) to have experienced the turbulent 60’s i have only my parents and siblings and their aquaintances to judge. here is my take: after doing their duty to america in military service they returned changed people. they saw the horrors of war and the death and destruction it brings and fought hard in their day to see that it was avoided if possible at all costs. their days are up and it is my generation who needs to be held accountable now. many of my friends who i consider decent human beings, caring of their children and well educated got caught up in the hu-rah of imperialism and american pride bs without taking the time to research for themselves the true facts or conterpoints of this position. after arguing myself blue in the face to many of them after 911, when we had a rare opportunity to lead the world in a pursuit of peace, i only grew more and more angry as i could not make them see my point of view. now i rarely bring it up to them and they rarely respond when i do. i see hope in the generation below me but the kids today are clueless and in videoland. just as bush/cheney et al have no business sending our youths to die for no good reasons(other than their own pockets)my generation, who has never really had to sacrifice in this way, has no business condoning it.

25. fpal February 18th, 2007 5:29 pm

    Excellent article.

    You lay out some persuasive arguments that make your points.

    You did neglect the impact of 9/11. Americans supported, voted for the Iraq war, “the war on terror”, to get revenge. The patriots, statesmen you speak of did not want to diminish this emotion. The American government continues to spew and reinforce hate to engender support for war, inappropriately, I believe.

    Your question of the future viability of America is a good one. We should debate if American democracy is dead. I hope not.

26. ROGER ANTONY CARTER February 18th, 2007 6:52 pm

    A superb treatise and one with which only fools will disagree……….maybe this will re-affirm the obvious,too………….

    “A TIME FOR HEROES”

    Words by Roger Antony Carter
    Music by Barry David Butler
    (c) 2006 All Rights Reserved

    Intro

    Are they about, well give ‘em a shout
    If you know one or two, and surely you do
    The hour has arrived, and if we’re to survive
    To survive

    Dark forces move about
    In the Land Of The Free
    Who will be on hand
    To save our destiny

    This is a time for heroes
    A time for men of steel
    This is a time for heroes
    Men…who are real

    (Repeat Chorus)

    History has placed its call
    Why can’t they hear
    Will they get here in time
    When will they appear

    Dark forces, they march on
    Threatening liberty
    We cannot let them win
    Or rule by decree

    (Repeat Chorus)

    Dark forces move about
    In the land of the free
    Who will be on hand
    To save our destiny

    This is a time for heroes
    A time for men of steel
    This is a time for heroes
    Men…who are real

    (Repeat Chorus)

    roger.carterUK@gmail.com

27. Ric L February 18th, 2007 7:12 pm

    This piece by Professor Green is both beautiful and brilliant.

    I did cringe when Green expressed trouble over what he perceived to be an unfair attack on Bill Clinton, by Bob Dole: “. . . not nearly enough of those who could have made a difference stood up and called this attempt at political assassination what it was.”

    I’d venture that any “political assassination” was self-inflicted by Mr. Clinton’s own behavior - or misbehavior.

    I’d suggest that Clinton’s shenanigans, at that time, surely warranted such attacks, just as does our current White house occupant deserve equally strong denigrating rhetoric - from any quarter.

    Otherwise Professor Green did a fine job of putting things into perspective.

    Ric L

28. M.R.Walsh February 18th, 2007 9:55 pm

    I don’t see how pointing fingers at anyone, especially dead people, is going to help us. Since most of us are unlikely to run for office, what will help us is if we start pouring huge amounts of green into Dennis Kucinich’s race RIGHT NOW. I mean RIGHT NOW, people! Money is political power in this nation, we see this very clearly. We have to start early and get fully behind the one or few politicians with integrity that we have and lift them up into positions of leadership with CASH. Once they are leading us, we will be in a better position to change the money driven campaign rules, through them. I have supported Dennis Kucinich financially in the past, when few people were doing so. I don’t feel that I wasted my money because I put my money on good principles, which is never a loss. He needs to know we are perfectly aligned with him, with our intentions, our hearts, and our wallets. Suggest to everyone you know who can’t stand this infernal Bush administration to start sending money to Dennis Kucinich’s campaign now. Even if you or they only have one dollar to spare per week, send it to him. If you just have fifty cents per month to spare, send it to him. (Multiply $1.00 or 50 cents by over half the population of America. That will give you an idea of our potential.) He can’t do it without our money, but I’ll bet he will be able to do it with less money than the corporate funded puppets, because he is a good man. Goodness is more powerful than money. And once he is our president, we will need to guard his life like the Hope Diamond that it is.

29. allan February 18th, 2007 10:44 pm

    Radiohead, you painted a great analogy of the tribulations we Canuckistanians face up here in the cold, northern shadow of the empire.

    And I see the response so far is about on par with the attention the Gauls stirred when they complained to the Romans about their consumptive ways.

    Oh well, sometimes being ignored is a very good thing.

30. colleen February 19th, 2007 12:08 am

    allan and radiohead

    The people on this forum can’t control what is happening in the US. If we could then Canada would be in a better position.

    Canada should build up its trade with nations besides the US.

    Just be glad you don’t have our crime and incarceration rates, you have universal health care and you don’t go bankrupt when you become seriously ill. Your nation is far far more compassionate than the US.

    I see Arar received 10 million of dollars because the Canadian government allowed him to be sent by US authorities to a prison where he would be tortured. Meanwhile the US denies there was anything done that was wrong.

    If you think its bad now just imagine if Bush does manage to start a war with Iran. And we are unable to stop this war.
    http://www.newstatesman.com/200702190014

    At least your troops are only in Afghanistan, so your Canadians will not be killed in Iraq.

    In short : Your government works for your people, ours doesn’t.
    (even with Stephen Harper)

31. Robert Settgast February 19th, 2007 12:39 am

    All Too Relevant Quote: How is the World Ruled, & how do wars start?—
    Diplomats tell lies to journalists, & then believe what they read.
    (Karl Kraus, Austrian Press,1874-1936)

    Even with our limited information on this war, it is all to evident that our legislators erred when they granted this unlearned and arrogant administration the authority to embark on and perpetuate this disastrous misadventure.

    The weapons inspectors were there and we had contained Saddam. The resulting “civil war” and chaos had been predicted by many informed experts, and should have been obvious–but their advice was ignored. One can only imagine the extent of disaster if Saddam had unleashed some biological, chemical, or primitive nuclear weapons on our troops during the invasion.

    After nearly four years, the only rational option left now is for congress to seize the war powers from the president–and then pursue a logical course to conclude this misadventure. This would include not only recognition of the recent advisory commissions recommendations (which the administration ignored) but also curbing profiteering, promoting measures for energy conservation and global warming mitigation to reduce our dependance on their oil–and regain some worldwide trust.

    The alternative is to permit continuation of this disastrous quagmire, while risking a war with Iran and destabilization of the entire area– and further damaging our international stature.

32. hurley_mba February 19th, 2007 9:19 am

    Clearly Professor Green can’t get past his emotions and bitterness toward the current administration as evident the finger pointing in the article. Wouldn’t it be more constructive for the professor to put the past behind, learn from it but let it go and move on, so as to look forward and chart a vision of the future?

    Like it or not, we are in the war and the argument as to whether or not we should be there should be tabled until after we win. The professor and other leaders, especially political, would help a lot more by using logic and reason to help chart a quicker path to victory than simply voice their displeasure with the current situation using articles like this and meaningless resolutions. I believe the timing for these are seditious and undermine our effort in the war. After we win, let’s put it all out on the table so it doesn’t happen again.

    The professor seems like a very intelligent man and could do a lot of good if he learns to channel his emotions and energy into something constructive. Two questions come to mind: Does the professor want us to win this war? Does the professor have any constructive ideas to make winning a reality?

    Gen. George S. Patton once said, “American’s will not tolerate a loser!” We need to pull together as Americans to provide the will, the resources, and the plan for total victory. According to “old blood and guts”, anything less would be un-American.

33. anthony rose February 19th, 2007 9:35 am

    Excellent article. The only misfortune is it is, quite reasonably, limited to a progressive viewpoint. Not all parties (eg baby boomers, GOP, religious conservatives) are as unified as viewed here.
    A less limited analysis would see the wider-ranging and indeed CONFLICTING motives and actions - not only on one side of the aisle, whichever group that may be, but the other. In this great sea of currents ripping and pulling this way and that to avoid one or another fate, there is a general drift over the years that is the sum of all efforts.
    This general drift is towards a united humanity, freer in personal values but more contrained in the civil and public arena. Is this a good or bad thing? Ultimately the answer to that lies not in the left/right political divide or the progressive/libertarian/conservative divide but in one’s belief in humanity. That is why sometimes conservatives agree with progressives and other times Democrats agree with Republicans, etc etc.
    If one believes that humanity is improving by trial and error and that a global government will ultimately become a good thing, then you’re currently onto a good ticket. But if you believe we’re prisoners of our nature and doomed to repeat the mistakes of the past and that absolute power corrupts absolutely (why should it?), then we’re in big trouble.
    This is the ultimate pivot over which the main battle is raging, and the fight over other issues is dictated by it.
    To point at any of the parties involved as being one one side or the other in the political or religious level is to miss the real cause of the friction.
    What are you most afraid of?

34. Essie February 19th, 2007 11:41 am

    One can hardly find a more truthful and facinating article. Bravo!

35. Dutchman6 February 19th, 2007 12:07 pm

    Sir,

    As one of your so-called “cancer” cells, I have long believed that the country I grew up in had in fact become two countries, divided along the fault lines of respect for life (abortion), liberty (taxes and guns), morality (Hollywood ethics and gay marriage) and even truth (”the meaning of is”). Now I see I was wrong. After reading your piece, I’m convinced y’all inhabit a whole strange alternate universe.

    From my point of view, GW Bush is one of the best Democrat presidents of modern times. He’s grown government, deficits and the imperial power of the Presidency. He has debased the Constitution with the Patriot Act (something that will be used by the likes of Hillary against her domestic political enemies) and he has refused to defend our borders against a plain invasion, debasing the rule of law and has thereby flatly destroyed his party and any hope of a true conservative succeeding him. But that’s neither here nor there. You inhabit an alternate universe and cannot see from my perspective, as I cannot see yours. In fact, yours seems to me to be lunacy, and one should not waste time arguing with lunatics. Lunatics earn the right to inhabit their own world view without argument.

    However, on the off chance that you are not beyond reason, you should pay attention to what I am about to say with the same intensity that a sane person would if, driving at night down a wet, windswept curvy stretch of road, they catch a fleeting glimpse through the rain of a sign saying: “BRIDGE OUT.”

    When two opposing political sides begin to view each other other as “cancers”, “viruses” and “aliens”, the time for killing cannot be far in the future. Such language has always been the predicate of genocide throughout history. When you use such terminology, students of history amongst us “cancer cells” cannot fail but to take notice. We remember that Hitler referred to “the Jewish Virus” years before they began to heard folks onto freight cars headed to camps with signs that said “Arbeit Macht Frei.”

    But you should know that this particular “cancer cell” will not go gently into your collectivist good night. Try to remember, if you’re laying the anti-intellectual linguistic groundwork for a civil war, which side has the guns and the guts to use them. Control of the government in such a time will mean far less than you think. And that’s how you guys think, isn’t it? If something needs done, let the government do it? But incitement to civil war may have personal unintended consequences. I urge you to be careful in your language, sir, lest others (who are less understanding than I) get the right idea. In short, even for a college professor, you use injudicious words, dangerous words, that may one day come back to haunt you. You might want to buy a gun, or failing that, make friends with a “cancer cell.”

    Mike Vanderboegh
    Another armed cancer cell in the collectivist body politic
    PO Box 926
    Pinson, AL 35126

    “Molon Labe”

36. M.R.Walsh February 20th, 2007 6:28 pm

    Wow, that sounds like a violent threat. Typical cancer cell mentality: Fear and death. Fear, anger, and death. Fear, anger, hate, and death. Fear, anger, hate, revenge and death. Fear, anger, hate, revenge, terror, and death. Fear, anger, hate, revenge, terror, war, and death. (Yuck!)

    Healthy cells shine with love, forgiveness, life, and good ideas. (Mmmm!)

37. Dutchman6 February 21st, 2007 1:41 pm

    Brother (or Sister) Walsh sez:

    “Wow, that sounds like a violent threat. Typical cancer cell mentality: Fear and death. Fear, anger, and death. Fear, anger, hate, and death. Fear, anger, hate, revenge and death. Fear, anger, hate, revenge, terror, and death. Fear, anger, hate, revenge, terror, war, and death. (Yuck!)
    Healthy cells shine with love, forgiveness, life, and good ideas. (Mmmm!)”

    Like I said, we come from different universes. But I notice that neither you nor Green answered my challenge about your addressing people as cancers, viruses and aliens. You actually embrace the concept in the post. If by your claim you are a “healthy” cell then I must be a disease to be wiped out? That was my point. So see if you can get beyond the “peace, love, dope” mantra and answer the question: are people who disagree with you “cancerous” diseases or are they human? And if you find it somehow “violent” or “threatening” that your political opponents have learned the principle lesson of the Holocaust, you certainly will not understand the excrement storm that breaks over your goofy head when Green’s characterizations are taken to their logical conclusion. It is neither violent nor threatening to point out that you are about to drive off a cliff into a crash resulting in your death. (Note I do not call it an “accident” for there is nothing accidental about stupidity in the face of pointed warning.) It is, rather, an act of love. You may think it tough love, but so be it.

    Mike Vanderboegh

38. M.R.Walsh February 22nd, 2007 3:01 am

    Cancer cells destroy themselves and others. Healthy cells do not. If you’re talking about civil war in America and that you’re willing to kill people in your own country, then you are talking like a cancer cell. I have pointed out the difference between healthy cells and cancer cells, and I think the analogy fits. Being Jewish, I don’t need a lecture on the Holocaust. But I find it amazing, Mike, that a Bush supporter could identify himself with Jews persecuted by Hitler and his mindless haters. Let me address your challenge with a point to ponder: Green can be critical of others and not be thinking about killing them. You obviously cannot. That’s why you need to examine your mind. My goofy head is not afraid to die, unlike your goofy head. And that’s why I don’t sit around posting ominous threats and warnings to the cancer cell minority universe that you are choosing to inhabit. I do feel concern for you, though, and I wish you well.

39. Dutchman6 February 24th, 2007 3:09 pm

    OK, so you agree with Green that people who disagree with you are cancer cells. My point is that having done so, and knowing how the dehumanization of opponents leads to genocide, civil war, etc., then how is it that that relieves YOU, Green and Co. of the responsibility for the violence when it inevitably comes? You act as if your language operates in a vacuum without consequences. I am trying to tell you (and him, though he hasn’t the stones to answer my personal email to him) that there ARE consequences for such behavior. I’ll give you another example:

    Back during the Nineties, I was invited to speak at a “gun violence seminar” at Children’s Hospital in Birmingham, AL. Before the panel began, I was approached by a child psychiatrist (who was also on the panel) and told: “You know, I believe ALL guns should be banned.”

    “Really?” I responded, “So, do YOU have a gun?”

    “Well, NO!” he replied.

    “Well, how do you propose to get mine then?”

    “Why, we’ll pass a law and you’ll have to turn them over to the government.”

    “Wrong, sport,” I replied, “Let me tell you how that will work. If you want my firearms, you’re going to have to kill me to get it. You’re going to have to kill my son, my brother and all our friends. And if even 10% of American gun owners feel the way we do, you’re going to have to kill upwards of 8 million people to enforce your policy, and that doesn’t count all the anti-freedom pukes like you that we’ll kill in righteous self-defense before we meet our Maker, and we intend to make that more than a 1 to 1 ratio. So you’ve got to ask yourself: Is it worth it?”

    He backed away in horror, unable to understand that there are still people who adhere to the Founder’s basic idea of a Republic.

    So you see, what I’m trying to say is that if you choose to characterize us in non-human terms, setting the stage for oppression and death like Hitler and every other communist, fascist and racist collectivist in the 20th Century, don’t be surprised if we begin to take decisions based upon your denial of our humanity.

    I suggest you return to history and see if you can draw any conclusions from the Warsaw Ghetto, the rebellion at Sobibor and especially the story of the Deacons for Defense and Justice during the civil rights movement. I am trying to persuade you here, not threaten you. I am trying to illustrate the folly of your denial of our basic humanity. Can you not see that such language can have severe unintended consequences?

    Can you not see that we wish to live freely in peace as well? We just see how the world works with a more jaundiced and informed eye than you. How is it we should trust the intentions of people who call us “cancer”? Would you?

    However, as you and Green seem to inhabit the same alternate universe, I suppose you really CAN’T and wno’t get it until the consequences sit upon your own front doorsteps. So very sad.

40. bntepywevisy November 14th, 2007 10:17 am

    titvanyrihowy…

    exkevinevyzy…

41. bnhacixatexa November 29th, 2007 7:05 pm

    titkypusapavu…

    extuwazucopi…

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