86 Comments so far

1. kittyladyoregon March 8th, 2007 4:47 pm

   Is it time yet for the revolution?
   I’m sure ready.

2. opeluboy March 8th, 2007 6:38 pm

   Couldn’t agree more, kitty. That damn tree hasn’t been watered in ages.

3. SouthernYankee March 8th, 2007 7:01 pm

   I gave up on them when they took impeachment “off the table”. Why would that be, I wonder???

4. RichM March 8th, 2007 7:24 pm

   Count me in. // It’s going to have to come to that, sooner or later. The political system — both parties plus the MSM — has become completely estranged from the rest of the population. Their interests conflict with those of the rest of the population; they don’t listen; & they’re completely unaccountable. This kind of situation cannot continue.

5. BillN March 8th, 2007 8:41 pm

   Get real, people. Deal with reality. If you want to be extreme, you are marginalized, and, in fact, you help your enemies. Sorry.

   This article takes a few anecdotes and builds a case. His assumptions are way off base from what the Dems are actually doing. The arguments are weak, and I would suggest the quality isn’t up to the usual standards of this site.

   The Dems are doing some good things, including working hard to get the US out of Iraq. You should consider helping instead of sitting on the sideline carping.

6. Sequana March 8th, 2007 8:54 pm

   Ok…..list 3 things the Dems are doing.

7. RichM March 8th, 2007 9:35 pm

   To BillN: Who are you to define what is “extreme” and “real?” How funny (& typical) that such arrogance should come from a Dem Party apologist — who I’m certain will be unable to name 3 things the “Dems are doing.”

   The Dems have betrayed the voters who put them in office. They are collaborators of those who have brought us the Iraq War, Abu Ghraib, and the shredding of the Bill of Rights. Many of these gutless swine voted for the torture act last fall, & almost none of them spoke out against it, then or since. They are in effect protecting Bush, voting in favor of all the supplementals to keep the war going, & refusing to expose Bush for his crimes.

   How typical that someone like you would actually claim the Dems “working hard to get the US out of Iraq.” What they are actually “working at” is trying to make people think that they’re “trying to get us out of Iraq,” without lifting a finger to actually do so. They are working only on producing the illusion — not the reality. Everything they propose is either toothless, or under all sorts of “iffy” conditions, or off in the distant future.

   Here’s another challenge, after you fail to name 3 things the “Dems are doing” — Back up your claim that the Sirota article is “weak.” I noticed nothing weak about it.

8. iammyself March 8th, 2007 11:11 pm

   BillN,

   So, in effect, you’re asking, “Who you gonna believe, me, or your lying eyes?” Well, my eyes may not be what they used to be, but I trust them enough to let me know when they see a load of BS, and they see yours.

   The Democratic Party has had 17 strikes, and still they ask for just one more before they’re out. Well, they’re OUT!

   Yes, kitty, Thomas Jefferson was right, and we’re many generations overdue for another revolution.

9. CitizenWorker March 9th, 2007 12:57 am

   To quote a friend when defining the two “major” political parties, “its the right wing and the left wing of the same bird of prey.”

   The Democrats have no intention of getting out of Iraq or ending the war. Just look at the so called plans. Those plans most reported call for “redeployment.” What the hell does that mean? Simply it means moving troops across neighboring borders to more friendly territory. Neither the Democrats or Repuplicans have any intention of leaving the area. Ain’t gonna happen. Not today, not tomorrow, not next year. We’re there for the foreseeable future, get used to it. The US has over 700 overseas military installations and we’re not going to give any of them up, get used to it.

   Unless we like minded progressives get about the organizing of SECOND political party we’re looking at an indefinite occupation of an Arab country, voters be damned.

   So what say you all? Are you ready and willing to work hard to form an alternative to the left wing and right wing of the same bird of prey???

   CitizenWorker

10. Bob Malone March 9th, 2007 1:04 am

    The election process is so interdependent with business and special interests that at the national level Americans only get a choice between the crass and the more crass. There are some Representatives and Senators whom I respect. But by the time any of them does what is necessary to be considered for and elected to public office, he or she has become someone altogether altered, beholding to those in the shadows, concerned mostly with remaining in their honorable chair in Congress. The voter gets left at the station.

    The solution is to strive in every way to return to national election process to the voter which means change the rules so, as it was only 30 years ago, a national hopeful does not require $100 million just to get into a televised debate. But you will have to fight the political parties to achieve such a change because, for them, the system functions just fine.

11. walt March 9th, 2007 1:36 am

    It took the Republicans 35 years (and billions and billions of gifts from the wealthy) to acheive their agenda. One measley mid-term election (won at a very narrow margin) is not nearly enough to upright a nation that’s listing that far to the right.

    We have to shape the course of the Democratic party with our votes. ‘06 was the beginning. ‘08 is the finale. but we have to stay involved.

    too many of you giving up in these comments. really weak. really tragic.

12. walt March 9th, 2007 1:37 am

    you act like there’s nothing at stake

13. Essie March 9th, 2007 5:37 am

    I have always thought—and I’m over 70—that the two-party system sucks. One party (the one appropriately depicted as a donkey) screws the American public, is voted out, and the other party (depicted as an elephant) comes in. This is now the elephant’s time to screw the American public. Guess what happens next: The elephant is voted out, and the donkey comes in again. The cycle keeps repeating. In the real, physical world there is a huge difference between a donkey and an elephant, but in the American political system there seems to be none. It is really not even a two party system. It is one party with two right wings. Unless the public becomes smart and votes for a third party, it will always be screwing time.

    Essie, Los Angeles

14. Poet March 9th, 2007 7:53 am

    Okay,Okay, to BillN and the rest I say the only hope (and a really unlikely one for sure) is if Nader and Kucinich run (either order because the purpose of them both is to provide “assassination insurance” for the other) and actually win.

    This country (and the world) will not look like it does now within the next 10 years due primarily to the diminishing supply vs. the growing demand for energy. To get a broad-brush inkling of what is in atore go to:

    http://www.kunstler.com/

    which is the website of writer James Howard Kunstler. Look at the transcrips of his two addresses “The Long Emergency” and “Peace Project”. we won’t have that long to wait before the momentum of things is beyond much of anyone’s control. The key question we all need to ask is: Are we part of the problem or soloution?

15. Com_n_sense March 9th, 2007 9:49 am

    Listen to the Democrat’s proposals. Not one of them is following the mandate that was waved in their face. (Save for the few like Kunich and others that are ignored or marginalized even though they truly speak for the majority - which speaks volumes in of itself)

    Get out NOW! And we don’t care how you do it. There is no “honorable” solution to a deceitful venture. Continuing this illegal invasion is aiding and abetting a crime. Period. Saying we need to stay until there is some sort of stabilization is like keeping a bad marriage together for the sake of the children. It doesn’t work.

    The argument that chaos would ensue if we pulled out is equally insane. We ARE the chaos. The people in that region have been on that land thousands of years before America was formed. For us to think that we’re going to transform them is simply hubris to a degree that is off the charts.

    The people have spoken. No one is listening.

16. rmboyter March 9th, 2007 9:56 am

    Its time Pelosi Resign her post. If she won’t stop kissing the butt of these corrupt war mongering murders, she does not deserve to be the speaker. If pelosi continues to defy the will of the people, I urge her immediate removal from the position of Speaker of the House

17. Stephen V. Riley March 9th, 2007 9:56 am

    The BillN’s of our nation are the problem.

    Where is his outrage?

    Where is the outrage in this nation? It is long overdue. It is time for massive massive public demonstrations, non-violent demonstrations, but clearly mind numbing civil disobedience. . It is the only avenue for radical change in this country. It always has been. It will always be. It is the only language the power brokers understand. This is the American way for revolution. Radical social change will never happen in the business suites without radical activists in the streets. Educate yourself. Educate your friends. The activists become activists because they have educated themselves. They have chosen to be aware. They have chosen to know. Thus they act. Join the revolution. Put your ass on the line. It is the only way if you truly care.

18. Gail March 9th, 2007 10:15 am

    “Inside this gated community, actually listening to or shaping policy on behalf of the vast majority of Americans is considered either laughably outdated or disgustingly unsavory.”

    Welcome to the Brave New World of “soma pills” in the form of Anna Nicole addictions and the like.

    As long as Big Money and the media can keep us in bondage by preying upon our addictions, don’t expect to see any positive or significant changes taking place by an elitist government whose goal is to simply preserve the “facade” of democracy while they gradually shift the country towards totalitarianism through encroachments that destroy our freedom.

    We Americans do love our enslavement!

19. voxclamantis March 9th, 2007 12:03 pm

    An interesting spate of comments, zeroing in on the tough question of whether the entrenched two party junta of the world’s most powerful kleptocracy needs to be reformed from within, augmented by yet another third party, or simply overrun in that great big American revolution we dreamed about in the sixties. BillN is right about marginalization. To step to the left of the Democrats is to step into political oblivion. Not that I’m against it. If Citizenworker is ready to get busy and organize 50 million voters into a third party to throw the bastards out of Iraq, he can use my garage and my old Apple computer. Steven V. Riley is right about outrage. To remain a Democrat is to legitimize dithering poltroonery and endorse the status quo. I stepped out of that club myself in 2004, just to let them know that my support is far from automatic. Americans are too fat for revolution, as satisfying as the idea of finding our decency at last in a groundswell of grass roots activism might be. Count me in too, RichM. When the torch and pitchfork wielding mob comes past my place on its way to the East coast to set things right, I’ll join up. But looking around right now I don’t see millions of people angry enough to look up from their Netfliks. I see a small number of educated, morally outraged, angry-enough people, you and I and Jerry Rubin, but not enough to do the job. And I hope you’ll all keep talking, because I don’t have a clue what we should be doing.

20. ctrew March 9th, 2007 12:38 pm

    One doesn’t steer toward the middle when fighting a rightward current. We need to remind the “moderates” of this. We all have to lean hard to the left. Kucinich has the most clearly articulated plans, but has been consistently ignored by MSM and “centrist” (corporatist?) dems. He hears us and we hear him.
    Nader still stirs up major negative emotions, and even if we love the man, his work and his principles, we must consider what happens in three way races. Where would we be now if he hadn’t run in 2000. (I grew up in Georgia, where a semi-successful write-in candidacy threw the governors election into the hands of a dixiecrat state legislature, which gave us Gov. Lester Maddox, a racist fellow who had been unable to get elected mayor of Atlanta after decades of running for office.) So I will work to get a democrat elected, because that is where most progressive voters will go.
    It takes a lot of courage to campaign for a candidate at whom others scoff and label unelectable. Kucinich is already running. He is the best organized progressive out there. He does not have the support of Big Money, so he needs ours. He needs our effort, our voices. I don’t row, but I know that in Crew, the little guy becomes the coxswain, the essential guide to the rowers, who can’t see where they are going. If we give Kucinich a megaphone maybe he can straigten out our course. Even if we do not get him elected, a robust Kucinich campaign could pull all the other candidates toward the rational, practical, nobel path which leads toward the greater common good.

21. PJD March 9th, 2007 12:53 pm

    “When the torch and pitchfork wielding mob comes past my place on its way to the East coast to set things right, I’ll join up…”

    Not to get reagonal, here, but weren’t the rural and sun-belt suburban dwellers of all those states east and south of the Allegnenies the ones who bought into the whole reagan-clinton-bush project to begin with?

    If there is a revolution it will be started by all us city-slickers in on the northeast coast and rust belt.

    It can be a peaceful revolution - mass protest action and general strikes culminating in a second constitutional convention, the new constitution will preserve the Bill of Eights of course, but will include stringer labor and environmental rights, and will completely reorganize representative democracy - moving democracy to it’s next stage.

    One idea I’ve toyed around with is this whole conflation of democracy with elections - the two actually have relatively little to do with each other. Wouldn’t the most democratic form of representative governance be a randomly selected council of citizens - the same way counties select juries? There would be, of generous pay and guarantee of the representatives’ old job upon returning from their 4-year duty. This would, in one fell swoop, eliminate big money and coroprate influence (CEO’s would have a random chance for a seat like anyone else) It would also, eliminate the tendency of the electoral process to accumulate those self-selected for their power-hungriness and self-serving ambition.

    PJD - Pittsburgh, Rust Belt

22. PJD March 9th, 2007 12:55 pm

    sorry about the typos, I wish this site had an edit function

23. PJD March 9th, 2007 1:01 pm

    reagonal — regional (Freudian typo)

    east and south of…– west and south of…

    Bill of Eights –Bill of Rights

24. indijo March 9th, 2007 1:08 pm

    American politicians — the best liars money can buy!

    American politicians are such great liars, the Empire is exporting them now. Only, if I were them, I’d steer clear of the Middle East and South America. The people there know lying hypocrites all too well and they don’t particularly like them.

    As for myself, after 25 years of this BS, I’m well-aquainted with the so-called 2-party sham. When are the American people going to fully realize that they have been sold HUGE LIES by their own governmental leaders?

    Both the war on drugs and the war on terror are fascist actions which serve the ruling class and wealthy corporations; these wars on concepts do not serve the people. They are duel-purpose wars; they dumb-down the people with fear and ignorance while scapegoating others for the problems caused by bad leadership, and they provide an excuse for the ruling class to destroy all petty opposition to their rule before it gains momentum or following.

    The world was designed by the wealthy ruling class for the wealthy ruling class and its time the majority of common people realized this and did something about it.

25. bildad March 9th, 2007 1:31 pm

    The Democratic Party stopped caring about the will of the people on the day after the election. The relationship between these elected “representatives” and their grassroots enablers is like that of a codependent couple in which the powerful one cheats, abuses and lies to the other and the victim keeps on taking it year after year, making excuses for the abuser and saying, “I can’t leave because I have nowhere else to go.” The fact is that the donkey party will never change and the leadership will never allow it be reformed from the inside. Democratic voters, it is time to get out of your codependent trap. Change your registration to Green, Socialist, Independent or Decline to State. Stop voting for people who refuse to do what you elected them to do–i.e., end the occupation or impeach the crooks in the administration–because they think it might be “premature” or “devisive.” Don’t you remember the old saying that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results?

26. iammyself March 9th, 2007 1:39 pm

    I left the Democratic Party in the mid 90’s for the Green Party (I am now an Indie). They had/have good ideals and ideas, but couldn’t get a real toe-hold in the political arena. Why? Because they are anti-corporate. Not that Greens don’t do business with corporations (even hybrid cars are built by the world’s biggest corporations), but they see that the problem in the US political system, indeed the world at large, is the corporate mentality. Same thing goes for ANY upstart political party - they simply cannot put in roots into the system because they are blocked by the ONE coporate political party that occupies Washington, DC. Even the Libertarian Party, with their laissez-faire attitude, can’t crack the corporate mentality and organization.

    So…what to do? Well, various folks have called for a revolution, myself included. However, let’s throw off the notion of pitchforks and storming the Bastille - the opposition’s weaponry and organization is far too powerful for mob behavior to have an impact. However, organization works! The problem is, and has been, that Progressives tend to have a healthy distrust of organization. A conundrum!

    So, what do we do? How do we organize in a disorganized manner? Is it even possible? Well, apparently, it is. Now, here’s my disclaimer: I AM NOT ADVOCATING FOR VIOLENCE OR ANY TERRORIST ACTIVITIES. What I am advocating for is the same type of insurgent organization that has worked since the American Revolution. We come together around an ideal (freedom from corporate opression) and work as a unformally organized group(s), or more to the point, a bunch of cells that come together for specific actions in order to disrupt the machine.

    A few of things come to mind: 1. Economic - we stop paying into the machine - Reduce, Re-use, Recycle - create or join barter groups and simplicity groups, 2. Support - join affinity groups to support our goals and ourselves - after all, we each need support in the battle, 3. March forward - it is impossible to go forward while looking backward - we simply have to get over the notion that protesting and banning will get us where we need to go. Yes, protests and bans are necessary, but as an adjunct to progress, not as a method of progress. We must define our vision and how we will get there before others jump on board. In short, we have to start being the change we want to see!, 4. Politics - love it or hate it, it’s here to stay. Support who you may, but do it because you believe in the person, not as a vote for the lesser or against the other. It’s plainly obvious that by the time the corporate system has ground out the candidates of their liking, the people have lost, so why not throw everything you can (meaning, more than just your vote) into the person you believe in. From where I stand, that person is looking like Dennis Kucinich. Will he win? I don’t care. What I care about is that through my support, a tiny advancement toward sanity and health with be made, 5. Communication - as long as we fall into the mainstream “frame” of reference, we start on the wrong foot. George Lakoff’s (who wrote Don’t Think of an Elephant) Rockridge Institute was set up to get the Left to frame the debate instead of falling into the Right’s trap every time, 6., 7., 8… There are many other ways we can advance our vision and agenda, but we need to get into some manner of concerted effort.

    ctrew alluded to crew rowers following the coxswain’s direction. As an ex-crewman, I know what he means. However, a boatful of Progressives simply aren’t going to pull together. We need another analogy, or frame. How about, we’re each in our own rowboats or sailboats, and we just start heading in the same direction for once and helping each other along. If we can start seeing what’s on the horizon and recognizing the barriers along the way, we can communicate to each other and make some real headway. Who knows, if success really breeds success, maybe the broad base of disenfranchised Americans will join us.

    Courage!

27. RichM March 9th, 2007 2:07 pm

    About Kucinich: There’s no doubt that on most issues, he’s one of the few Democrats even worth listening to.

    But even with DK (whom I worked for in ‘04), one shouldn’t get carried away. First of all, the party power-brokers will not allow someone like him to get anywhere near the nomination. In the extremely unlikely event that his campaign ever really became a contender, the party pooh-bahs & the media would launch a ridicule campaign to take him down overnight.

    Second, there are weaknesses in what DK himself represents. He stands for the idea that the Dem Party can be an adequate vehicle of real change — but it can’t be. // He also betrayed his own supporters in ‘04 by capitulating the week before the Convention, agreeing to stop talking about Iraq, & to support Kerry. // And– he’s not in favor of impeachment. So when push comes to shove, he tends to put party above principle. // Even if he moved into contention, who else in the Dem Party would support him? Can anyone even conceive of phonies like Hillary or Kerry, actually supporting a true antiwar populist like DK? They’d sooner vote Republican. // Dennis is not a shill for corporations. Yet he belongs to a party of corporate shills.

    Kucinich is a concept that only sounds good at first glance, to the desperate. People grab for it because it seems “easier” than more radical solutions. If DK were more true to his progressive principles, he’d quit the Dem Party tomorrow, & run as an independent. How can he tie himself to a party, 99% of whom frankly find his positions embarrassing and ridiculous?

28. corvo March 9th, 2007 2:30 pm

    To CitizenWorker: When the Democrats say they want to “redeploy” our troops in Iraq, what they mean is that they want these troops available for the inevitable invasion of Khuzestan.

29. ctrew March 9th, 2007 2:38 pm

    Before you give up from weariness or cynicism, check out these links:
    Kucinich explaining his plan for financing his campaign-
    http://kucinich.us/node/3500/play

    Kucinich on ending the Drug War- http://kucinich.us/issues/drugwar.php

    And while we are still visualizing whirled peas, imagine Elizabeth Kucinich as first lady- http://kucinich.us/node/577

30. PJD March 9th, 2007 3:14 pm

    Since we are being “impractical” here, perhaps we need to stop conflating democracy with elections - the two actually have relatively little to do with each other.

    Wouldn’t the most democratic form of representative governance be a randomly selected council of citizens - the same way counties select juries? There would be, of generous pay and guarantee of the representatives’ old job upon returning from their 4-year duty.

    This would, in one fell swoop, eliminate big money and coroprate influence (CEO’s would have a random chance for a seat like anyone else) It would also eliminate the tendency of the electoral process to accumulate those self-selected for their power-hungriness and self-serving ambition.

31. voxclamantis March 9th, 2007 3:20 pm

    PJD - OK I’ll join the revolution even if it starts in Pittsburg. My point was that our opinions, even just “progressive” opinions, are so scattered (cf the above comments) that it’s going to be hard to put together a single cohesive mob for any purpose. Someone said that only about 20% of the population embraces pacifism in any consistent way (Bush’s fall from grace is not due entirely to the suffering he has caused, but also his failure to “win” his detestable war.)

    There are a lot of great ideas out there - some of them mine - about what “we should do.” What puts me into despair is the daunting financial and organizational resources of the corporations and special interests who govern our lives and use our money to buy the media, manipulate public opinion, rig elections and drop cluster bombs on children. The question of how the Constitution should be re-written is premature lacking the consensus that gives you the power to do it. ctrew’s notion is also the best I can come up with: Keep leaning left. It might have a cumulative effect on the culture, especially given the right’s genius for creating godawful messes and not cleaning them up.

    Don’t even bother apologizing for typos. You never see them until you hit the “submit” button.

    MM - Cactus Belt

32. ctrew March 9th, 2007 3:33 pm

    I have heard many people sheepishly admit that of all of the candidates, the one they agreed with most was Kucinich. Perhaps the embarrassing part of Kucinich’s platform is that it is courageous as opposed to politically cautious, so he makes the DLC types look Republican.

    I’ve spent a lot of time looking at DK’s web site today and I recommend it to you all. I tried to send some links but my message got lost in cyberspace. Check out the Utube video of him answering the question of a forth grader regarding paying for his campaign. Indijo, you should read Kucinich’s piece on ending the Drug War and the issue of decriminalizing marijuana.

    Dennis Kucinich is human, therefore not perfect, but there will never be a perfect candidate. He and John Conyers have said that if Bush tries to attack Iran they will start the impeachment process. We just have to embolden them to start it now.

    The Democratic Party, especially the DLC, does contain many corporate shills. It is also a party of progressives, populists, socialists, environmentalists, union members, etc. We may not prefer the two party system, but it is our best bet at the moment.

33. Lobo Gris March 9th, 2007 5:55 pm

    Want to really change politics in America and start us back on the right track?

    First the ideas that won’t work:

    1. Massive Demonstartions; the demographics aren’t there for it. As effective as it can be it just isn’t going to happen.

    2. Replacing all incumbents; I have advocated this but it isn’t realistic either. It isn’t going to happen.

    3. Revolution; Not a viable option and will only end up getting relatively large numbers of people detained and possibly killed.

    There has to be a different way and I think I have found it.

    The one thing that might be able to be done is for the angry electorate, which I believe is a majority, to unify around and elect a third party candidate for president. One who is anti-war, anti-free trade, and pro-worker, pro-middle class.

    I guarantee that that one action will do more to get the attention of our elitest politicians who ignore us more than anything else that could be done. If the Democrats and the Republicans see a third party candidate get elected President they will know their days are numbered if they don’t change their ways.

    Will a third party president be able to accomplish everything that most of us want done? Of course not but what that person could do along with the psychological effect of their election would be significant.

    What has to be done to make it happen?

    First, everyone has to unify behind a single candidate based on two issues, the war and the economy. They are the two issues that threaten to destroy us most quickly. That may mean many of us, including myself, subjugating our views on peripheral potential wedge issues for the common good.

    Second, everyone who is angry has to pledge to not only vote for that candidate but to volunteer to work for their campaign and to donate what money they can within the limits of the law to help make it happen. Sitting on the sidelines and wishing isn’t enough.

    It could happen if enough people are will to make it so.

    Lobo Gris

34. auspiciousbunny March 9th, 2007 9:32 pm

    It is encouraging to hear what everyone has to say here.

    I have to say just this: My Democratic senators are liars.

    I am a registered Democrat, but I am so sick of it. Our elected representatives need to grow the hell up. Too bad the rest of us can’t remain psychologically at age six, when one is blissfully unaware of the existence of people besides oneself — like our government seems to have the luxury to do.

    During the last election Menendez hung signs all over my town: STOP BUSH vote Menendez.
    By voting FOR the Military Commissions Act of 2006 what was Menedez doing — his part to stop Bush?

    My other Senator, Lautenberg, also saw fit to give torture his go ahead. Who is extreme, me or them? They don’t give a damn about the country’s laws.

    I am not the one who supports torture or murder strictly to preserve my own benefit. But that is what they voted for. As far as I am concerned those Democrats who don’t act in every way possible to end this war and it’s associated injustices have the blood of every dead American and Iraqi on their hands for endorsing the violence. Iraq did not attack us, there is no justification for what we set in motion over there.

    We voted Democrats into office because we sought a reversal in the policy of torture, illegal war and squandering of US taxpayers money both tragic and criminal.

    I agree it is going to be hard to get a mob organized. But I’m open to the idea of taking to the streets or, better yet, the Senate offices!

35. ezeflyer March 10th, 2007 12:51 pm

    Green Party News:
    http://www.gp.org/press.shtml

36. Rebel Farmer March 10th, 2007 10:09 pm

    This is one of the best comment boards (threads?) I’ve seen in a LONG time! Not so much Bush et al bashing, as actually talking about what to do now that the Dem’s we elected are letting us down. I feel like I have just joined a visioning discussion where we can all just throw our ideas out there without getting shot down. I,m lovin’ this!

    I agree with many of the comments that the Dem’s are such a diverse group, it’s hard to get us going in the same direction. It’s a little like trying to herd cats. As someone said, we need to settle on 2 to 3 (4..5?) things that EVERYONE can get behind. Where is the forum for like minded folks to get together in great enough numbers to do that? What about Moveon.org? Could they get this discussion going on a larger scale?

    Random thoughts:

    Would Al Gore run as an independent?

    I don’t think that our congresspeople actually read the bills they sign. They just do as their told.

    The Dem’s aren’t completely useless this year. At least Waxman and few others are at least doing some investigations.

    With the US Congress making no progress on stopping this war or holding folks accountable (impeachment), the States are stepping to the plate and getting the ball rolling from a grassroots level. (see Progressive States.org) I know my local reps are listening and acting.

    The thing we need most is National Election Reform! This is key to returning to a true democracy. No Electoral College; Open primaries where the two or four top vote getters go on the ballot no matter what party; Instant runoff balloting (no spoilers).

    Thanks for listening.

37. Lobo Gris March 10th, 2007 11:34 pm

    Rebel Farmer March 10th, 2007 10:09 pm

    Would Al Gore run as an independent?

    Al Gore is a free trader which is one of the two big no no’s for me. I am willing to compromise on every other issue except for “free trade” and premptive wars which I honestly believe are destroying us faster than anything else.

    Lobo Gris

38. Lobo Gris March 10th, 2007 11:42 pm

    #
    ezeflyer March 10th, 2007 12:51 pm

    Green Party News:
    http://www.gp.org/press.shtml

    Thanks for the link. I think I may have finally discovered, with your help, a political party that I can support.

    Lobo Gris

39. Rebel Farmer March 12th, 2007 1:08 pm

    Lobo,
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