93 Comments so far

1. Vern March 13th, 2007 12:21 pm

   When love is the bottomline, instead of money and profit, it will matter. And it will never happen on the road we now travel.

2. Jaded Prole March 13th, 2007 12:47 pm

   The Dems are useless. While loyalists may cling to their delusionary faith-based politics, it is increaingly obvious that we need alternatives.

3. cosmobilly March 13th, 2007 2:15 pm

   Right on JP! The Democratic Party is just the other side of the same damn coin.

   When are we going to realize that the two party primary system does not allow for real choices!!!!!! How many years have I heard folks talk about choosing between the lesser of **two** evils.

   The two party system effectively shuts out real alternatives, and makes it easy for special interests to corral politicians.

   But as long as folks think inside the box there is nothing to be done. Looking to the Dems to fix things was/is stupid, stupid, stupid. The Republicans didn’t swing things their direction these past couple decades because the Dems were doing such a bang up job!

   Yes, good for the electorate to send a message by voting for a change – yea, right?! What change? For crying out loud, no matter how many times you turn that damn coin over it remains the same coin.

   There are none so blind as those who will not see. You want real change? Stop supporting the two party primary system. Otherwise, ‘they’ will keep controlling who we get to vote for, and then control them once elected. It is all so transparent, it is astonishing that the topic of changing the two party system is never broached.

   Think inside the box, get the same results. Period. Insanity is expecting different results when doing the same thing over and over again. What ever happened to common sense?

4. RichM March 13th, 2007 2:45 pm

   Democrats = Vermin

   A new party must be built that’s independent of corporate money, & that will fight for goals serving the public’s interest, as opposed to those of the corps. Otherwise there’s no way out of this nightmare.

   If your political awareness has progressed to the point where you understand that the Democrats are actually a faction of the enemy, you should try to communicate this awareness to your friends & family. In many ways, it is precisely the unwarranted hope that “One day, the Dems will finally do the right thing” that keeps the population in bondage to the corporate duopoly.

   When people finally give up on the Democrats for good, they will finally be ready to face the tasks that must be faced. As long as they are enmeshed in dependent hoping that the Dems will eventually come riding to save them, they will be paralyzed by this false hope.

5. kitty_tc March 13th, 2007 2:55 pm

   And how do you intend to change the system or implement any policy at all from outside the government? If you “give up on the Democrats”, who do you turn to? There’s nobody left.

   The solution is to take over the Democratic party. The same way the radical right took over the Republicans. It can be done, but it requires a smart, longterm strategy that is willing to fight and not compromise it’s principles.

   “Giving up on the Dems” means either not voting or handing votes to parties that are structurally prevented from often even competing in let alone having success in elections, which by default hands power to the Republicans. And don’t tell me they’re no worse, because hundreds of thousands of dead people from W’s wars will overwhelmingly disagree.

6. gsemsel March 13th, 2007 3:09 pm

   kitty_tc is absolutely right. It’s time to dump the sorry lot who call themselves Democrats and re-create a party that actually is for the people. Yes, RichM, a new party must be built.

7. ezeflyer March 13th, 2007 3:34 pm

   kitt_tc:

   If enough Democrats defect to the Greens, they can’t be prevented from competing or being successful in the elections. We can still vote for progressive Dems like Kucinich, but the Democratic Caucus that just gave Bush and the Likudniks the OK to attack Iran, will no longer be able to take progressives for granted.

8. cosmobilly March 13th, 2007 3:46 pm

   RichM, as opposed to Republicans? The only thing worse than looking to Democrats for answers is looking to Republicans, lest ye forget that the American Ideal is founded in Liberalism and not Conservatism?

   Any which way, just what public interests are you referring to? It seems to me that Republicans carry on ad nauseam as to how they are looking out for our interests, when in fact they are only securing their own.

   Kitty_tc, good luck with that. Maybe a reread of the Declaration Of Independence will remind you of the need and power to “just say no.”

9. MarkMarshall March 13th, 2007 3:47 pm

   This is a good essay, and Linda O’Brien is certainly correct to point out that Congress would support action against Iran if that country attacked Israel. But – leaving aside the question of whether or not the USA should go to war for the sake of another country – she misses a very important point: Iran simply CANNOT attack Israel, because Israel has a nuclear deterrent. Not only does Israel have a nuclear deterrent; it has a SURVIVABLE nuclear deterrent. Even if an aggressor wiped out all of Israel’s land-based nuclear weapons in a first strike, Israel’s submarines could deliver a counter-strike. Regardless of what Ahmadinejad says, Iran cannot attack Israel, period. It is an impossibility.

   Mark Marshall
   Toronto

10. RichM March 13th, 2007 4:05 pm

    @kitty_tc: There’s no such thing as “taking over the Democratic Party” (at least by progressive forces). That fairy-tale of an idea is a standard talking point among Dem Party apologists who aren’t ready to face the hard truth. I’ve already addressed on this blog the historical reasons why the rad Right “takeover” of the Repubs was really only a modest adaptation; a tactical shift in what the Repub Party has always been — primarily the party of the financial & industrial Establishment. But for progressives to “take over” the Dems, it would require something far more drastic — akin to open-heart surgery or total body reconstruction.

    The Dem Party consists of elected officials, party officials, major donors, a certain stable of consultants & policy-paper people, and so on. Close to all of these people depend on continued inflows of corporate money. If the corporate money dried up, most of them would lose their positions & influence. These are not the kinds of people who are going to: fight global warming (offends Big Oil), fight for universal health care (offends Big Insurance & HMO lobbies); fight the lobbyist system itself (offends Corporate America as a whole); or fight against unjust US wars (offends the military-industrial complex). These are not the kind of people who will oppose free-trade agreements (offends all US multinationals) or put limits on media concentration (offends Big Media). They won’t regulate Wall Street (offends Wall St). Get the idea?

    By the time you go through the list of the goals they’re willing to fight for, you have nothing left. The Dems will “fight for” perhaps a symbolic raise in the minimum wage, & one or two other things. But everything that’s important, they won’t fight for, because they’re already subordinate to corporate power — which itself is the root problem.

    To “take over” a party like this, you’d have to throw out every single party element that’s basically loyal to corporate money. This would be “total body reconstruction.” It’s not at all comparable to what the R’s did in the 60’s & 70’s, in picking up the South & the religious fanatics. Because, you see, the R’s didn’t have to change their basic character, which was always corporatist-nationalist. For the Dems to become a “progressive” party, they’d have to change their fundamental character by 180 degrees. It’s absurd & naive to believe this can be done.

11. judi March 13th, 2007 4:22 pm

    Good article and I hope more will be written on bad choices for Speaker of the hOuse, Pelosi. During Bush’s last speech when she was seated to his left, did you notice how cold and secure Cheney was by not acknowledging her? She’s too weak and no match for the criminals who now run our government and military. And apparently she doesn’t have the character and balls to stand up for American choices to end the war.

12. Gail March 13th, 2007 5:18 pm

    “It is somehow implied that love is for wimps and wusses, Dems and liberals. Real men and women kill and don’t think of love.”

    These are the people who think a pumped-up penis and spreaded legs = love.

    No wonder we’re always at war!

13. opeluboy March 13th, 2007 6:34 pm

    Can we now all agreee that foreign policy, by both Reps and Dems, is designed to please AIPAC and hard-right Zionists?

    Oh, I’m sorry, these wars are all about oil. I forgot.

14. opeluboy March 13th, 2007 6:35 pm

    aha! another comment didn’t post.

15. opeluboy March 13th, 2007 6:35 pm

    wonder if it’s the word Zion–t

16. BillN March 13th, 2007 7:16 pm

    Well, there is another party for you folks, if you don’t like the Dems, and I don’t mean the Greens because they don’t matter.

    Even in a parliamentary system, the minor parties must work in coalition with others to win their goals. They must compromise. If we had more experience, the Greens or Nader would know how to use their power, instead of helping their enemies. They would learn how to behave in a multi-party fashion. You can do it now.

17. clyde paige March 13th, 2007 7:41 pm

    Kitty: You make more sense than those who say give up on the democrat’s. The republican’s have had complete control for six year’s and have just about destroyed our constitution gotten rid of all of our friend’s around the world–our national debt is through the roof and still rising. We have a moron for a president and the devil himself for a vice. I don’t agree with what Nancy is doing she need’s to be replaced for saying impeachment is off the table if for no other reason. Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid are both weak leader’s but they aren’t trying to destroy America as this most corrupt administration is doing.
    We the people must demand better candidate’s in the democtatic party and if Al Gore doesn’t run we should draft Russ Feingold for president.

18. RichM March 13th, 2007 9:03 pm

    For those of you having trouble letting go of the Democrats, here’s a simple way to understand the situation.

    Try to picture someone who wants to beat you up & rob you. This is what we call a “Republican,” OK?

    Now picture someone who seems friendly, has a nice smile, & wants to win your trust. He makes you feel warm & cozy. You take him home, & he deliberately leaves open the back door so that a gang of robbers comes in to your house while you’re asleep, beats you up, and robs you. This guy with the nice smile is what we call a “Democrat,” OK?

    The 2 types we just sketched out here are not exactly “the same,” right? There’s a difference in their M.O., & in their personal style. But they work together. Neither one is really your friend. The fact that the R looks nastier & more menacing does not really make the D any “nicer.”

    It’s one thing to be too impatient & to expect instant miracles. But the Democrats’ betrayals of their voters have been going on now for 40 years. They are not capable of opposing Republicans, because they are almost as thoroughly infiltrated with corporate cash as the R’s. There is absolutely no reason to believe that this can be changed by “grass roots” efforts, because all the big donors, the DLC, most of the marquee names & consultants — ALL of these people are feeding from the corporate cash trough, & will fight very hard to maintain their positions of privilege.

    Didn’t any of you notice that YESTERDAY, 3/12, the D’s surrendered to Bush yet again, on Iran & Iraq? Next week, they will be voting him over $100 B to continue the wars. For all practical purposes, the Repubs may as well have won in November.

19. iammyself March 13th, 2007 9:12 pm

    Israel. Israel, Israel, Israel, ISRAEL!

    I wonder why we’ll go to war with Iran… Can anyone tell me?

20. BillN March 13th, 2007 9:15 pm

    Rich,

    So your alternative, besides complaining, is to move to Canada or something?

    We can have change, but it takes all of us working hard to make it happen.

    Sitting on the sidelines and grousing isn’t helping anything.

21. pamela March 13th, 2007 9:23 pm

    “Both parties agree
    it’s the two-party system
    that makes us free”
    -Phil Ochs

    The Dems have been a major disappointment.
    I regarded the insertion of the requirement for Bush to gain approval from Congress before taking military action against Iran as simply a reassertion of the Congressional power to declare war, as defined in our Constitution. Apparently, they are not even capable of reminding the President of the separation of powers.
    For any Democrat to imply that a military strike is a negotiation tool is overlooking the most basic negotiation tool of getting to the table. Are the Dems now going along with the major tenet of the Bush Administration’s idea of diplomacy that we don’t talk to people we don’t like?
    Any hope I had after the November 2006 elections is dissipating quickly. The doors are wide open for a third party.

22. Lobo Gris March 13th, 2007 10:08 pm

    I too think a third party is the answer. All politicians break promises but the Dems seem to be particularly insidious about campaigning for votes and help from the working class and then turning on them after the election. One thing that I will say for the Republicans as much as I dislike and disagree with them is that they unlike the Democrats don’t abandon their base after the election.

    I give you Bill Clinton who campaigned on helping the middle class and middle class tax cuts during his first term. As soon as he was elected he was pushing for NAFTA, followed by other trade agreements where the main goal turned out to be shipping as many jobs out of the country as possible as fast as possible that had been held by those who he had asked to help him get elected. He promised help and job retraining to those that were displaced which disappeared even before the ink was dry on the trade agreements he was pushing

    Now Hillary is talking about how the middle class needs help. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.

    I for one am joining the Green party and I have gotten some positive feedback on proposal for a temporary alliance with the Libertarians in which the Greens would vote for Libertarians in races where there was no Green candidate or where the demographics showed that a Libertarian would have a better chance. And vice versa. Such an alliance if the party leaders would agree to it would provide a vote multiplier and increase the chances of both more Greens and more Libertarians being elected.

    I say it often and will say it again, the definition of insanity is to keep repeating the same actions over and over again, each time expecting different results.

    Time for me to leave the asylum folks, I’ve had enough. I would urge you to join me.

    And face it folks, true progressives like Dennis Kucinich will never get the nomination in the Democratic party. The corporate wing of the Democratic party which includes the party elite will never allow it.

    If he would consider giving up his day job I do think he might make a very good Green party presidential candidate.

    Lobo Gris

23. RichM March 13th, 2007 10:51 pm

    BillN,

    Dem Party loyalists always accuse the party’s critics of “just sitting on the sidelines & complaining.” In fact, you have absolutely no idea of what my activities are. And I don’t recall saying anything about moving to Canada.

    What I did say, is that it’s going to be necessary to face up to some very hard realities. One of these is that the entire political establishment has in effect become tightly coordinated with the most powerful private interests in the country, & separated from 99% of the population. There is a “ruling class” — a corporate oligarchy — and they control both parties. To continue to put one’s faith in one of those parties will bring the same results sketched in my anecdote above. These results are basically the same regardless of which party is in nominal control (though to be sure, the D’s seem more sweet & gentle on the surface).

    At the top of this thread, kitty_tc said, “If you give up on the Democrats, who do you turn to? There’s nobody left.” At first glance, that seems true — until one recognizes that EVEN NOW, there’s already nobody left, because the Democrats aren’t really “there” either. They sold out, betrayed their voters, & joined the enemy many decades ago.

    I believe a new party is absolutely necessary. Both D’s & R’s are big-business parties; the interests of big business conflict with those of most of the population. There could perhaps be a coalition of left parties, including (for example) Greens, socialists, some Left libertarians, & even Kucinich-style Democrats. A clear clean agenda could be agreed upon — say, 1) stop the wars 2) cut defense spending 3) univ. health care 4) mass transit 5) mileage standards & 6) rapid conversion to alternative energy technology.

    Such a program, exactly because it’s NOT in the profit interests of Wall St, the military-industrial complex, or Big Pharma, etc, is going to be fought tooth & nail by BOTH big parties — since all they really are, in effect, are agents of these big companies. // It’s delusional to imagine that either big-business party would ever in a million years work for a program anything like that. Those goals, & others like them, cannot be achieved inside the 2-party system.

24. ctrew March 13th, 2007 11:11 pm

    Before jumping ship, read what Dennis Kucinich has to say on all of the issues. Watch a few of the videos of him on YouTube. I really enjoyed hearing him speak about Universal Health Care.

    Remember how many establishment Dems said that a peanut farmer from Plains, Georgia could never get elected. (It did snow in Miami the day of his innauguration.)

    Remember how close Howard Dean came to being nominated, and how many new progressive people he helped get into office.

    Remember that a majority of Americans want US to get out of Iraq as soon as is practical.

    Remember that people are really ready for someone who speaks truth to power.

    Kucinich wants to make the Democratic Party the party of the people again. A truly concerted effort by the democratic majority could do it. After I watched him tell a forth grader how he could raise the money to win, I donated fifty bucks, that I had to borrow. Talked myself into making the leap after trying to convince people online to check him out.

    Third party can’t win yet. Really look at Kucinich. Let’s try that first.

25. PJD March 13th, 2007 11:22 pm

    Changing the situation starts with a correct diagnosis. RichM is offer that diagnosis, and is also correct in his bleak assessment about what can be done.

    My only difference with RichM is that those 99 percent of USAns are virtually in feudal peasant-like submission to, even admiration of, those powerful interests. Collective action is utterly foreign to them, class-consciousness is gone, and there is a corporate-brainwashed conformism of attitudes and behaviors and tastes that is appalling in it’s uniformity. Who cares about even the First Amendment??? Does anyone ever actually exercise their free speech rights anymore?

    We will see change only when things get really bad – worse than the 1930’s, but even then, without a rebirth of concepts like community, society, and solidarity, there will be no improvements – only a descent to absolute brutishness.

26. KLY March 14th, 2007 12:44 am

    America must go back to basics. As long as we fail to publicly renounce the Bush Doctrine’s assertion of an American first-strike perogative against any whom we fear, our nation’s soul remains damaged severely, and no American leader can be successful. There will always be those who can manipulate the intel, and the truth, to persuade the press, the public, and our leaders (the Congress and the administration) that we must exert military and economic might against a supposed enemy. Let’s begin by demanding that Democratic and Republican candidates renounce the Bush Doctrine. During the primary season, they cannot run from this issue, if only the public and press insist upon their taking a public stand upon it. At the very least, such efforts can make it more likely the next administration will adopt a wiser National Security Strategy.

27. Lobo Gris March 14th, 2007 8:42 am

    ctrew March 13th, 2007 11:11 pm

    “Before jumping ship, read what Dennis Kucinich has to say on all of the issues. Watch a few of the videos of him on YouTube. I really enjoyed hearing him speak about Universal Health Care.”

    I’m not interested in campaign speeches or You Tube videos.

    I can go on You Tube and promise everyon a new car and a guranteed $2000 dollar a month check from the government if people will elect me president. That doesn’t mean you are going to get it.

    I am interested in voting records, legislation he has introduced or attempted to introduce since he has been in office, and specific plans. Plans that include how he intends to get what he wants passed, and how it’s going to be paid for.

    “Third party can’t win yet. Really look at Kucinich. Let’s try that first.”

    No more let’s try this first for me. Show me first, and so far after the 2006 elections they haven’t shown me sh*t.

    Lobo Gris

28. Vern March 14th, 2007 9:05 am

    Kucinich’s role is too keep the Left flank in line but he will predictably capitulate to the party ultimately. He is always not quite ready-for-prime-time and his new age antics makes him frivolous and juvenile. The party will put more energy into ostricizing and marginalizing Progressives viewed as a true threat to the Corporate ruling class. The party will wage war against Nader before they hold Bush accountable. Think about that.

29. RichM March 14th, 2007 11:06 am

    Vern is exactly right. Those entertaining illusions in Kucinich should remember what he did going into the ‘04 Convention. He had promised his followers to keep fighting for his antiwar stance “all the way to the Convention.” But the week before the Convention, when the party platform was being prepared, the Kerry people insisted that not a word of opposition to the Iraq war would be included; & furthermore, that no one was to say a word against the war from the podium.

    Kucinich capitulated on both counts. He released his delegates from any obligation to keep fighting for an antiwar plank; & when he personally spoke from the podium, he didn’t even mention the word “Iraq.”

30. ezeflyer March 14th, 2007 12:08 pm

    Thank you RichM and all of you in this thread for your intelligent views. Conservatives from both parties have changed politics long ago from impartial analysis for the common good to a strategy of attack, defile, fear, demonize and destroy for personal gain using their MSM megaphone. This forum is a breath of fresh air. It’s new and not many shills have found it yet. I look forward to reading your posts.

31. trinharder March 15th, 2007 8:19 am

    The one thing I would say differently is that we don’t need leaders at all; we need followers, as in representatives. They were not elected to lead. They were elected to represent the citizens of this country. Just like CEO’s and top management represent the shareholders, and serve at their will. At least that’s the way it’s supposed to work.

32. aybayb March 15th, 2007 10:21 am

    How could it be made more obvious that ‘We the People’ need a political party that will represent US?! How much longer will progressives cling to the rotting carcass of a Democratic Party which has abandoned any claim on our votes….except for the ‘claim’ of ‘Habit’?

    This is ONE habit we need to drop immediately. The sooner we start working on building a party that will support its progressive base, the sooner we can break this absurd habit of tolerating ‘lesser evils’ which turn out not to be very much ‘lesser’ than the party they claim to oppose.

33. aybayb March 15th, 2007 10:33 am

    Kucinich is right on all the issues; but as long as he remains in the Democratic Party he will never be able to follow up on his own ideals. ‘Party Loyalty’ will spell the death of progressivism. No matter how much the Dem Party hacks and their minions slander us (and actually threaten us) for supporting alternative party candidates (who, BTW, advocate positions that would have a positive effect on our lives), the stronger we must stand in support of those candidates and OUR issues.

34. ctrew March 15th, 2007 11:26 pm

    Hey Vern, educate me. What new age antics (of Kucinich) are you referring to?

35. Peter Posetti March 17th, 2007 7:32 pm

    Your article on the internet is to the point Linda. I get the feeling that the Democrats are truly gutless, the Republicans couldn’t ask for more having Pelosi lead the party, Americans surely deserve better after the Republican debacle that thumbs its nose at democracy and justice.

    Are there Democrats with the vision to bring America out of this? I have been reading about the Democrat Dennis Kucinich, this man has something. He was one of a few Democrats who opposed the war all along and he has a plan to restore Iraq that does not include further US molestation and raping of key Iraqi resources and its citizens. Time is not on America’s side, the civil war will soon spread across the middle east and when foreigner investors (Chinese and Japanese) “cash in their chips” and push the US economy over the precipice, all the oil in the world won’t help America. The American economy is close to free fall, a few of us overseas will go with it soon and all of this can be attributed to Bush’s war of terror: crimes against humanity?- I am sure. I hope the media will pick up the impeachment debate and run with it. Bush must go!

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