38 Comments so far

1. brian March 19th, 2007 2:55 pm

   With all due respect to the authors, it must be recognized that politics died in the U.S. the day the brown shirts stormed the recount stations in Florida in 2000. The hired thugs changed how we do politics from voter rule to mob rule. It is within this new framework that we will re-gain our democratic institutions. Move-On should put out a call to occupy congressional offices, both in D.C. and in each state. That is the only way we will ever have any semblance of self governance again in this country. All the demonstrations and protests will gain nothing. Pack a big lunch, bring a sleeping bag, tent, all the necessities for a very long occupation. This I can predict….V.P. Darth Cheney would stay airborne for the duration of the occupation of congressional offices. And that alone would be worth the effort!

2. Rebel Farmer March 19th, 2007 3:14 pm

   Brian,
   Nice comment and good strategy! Thanks

3. Ronald White March 19th, 2007 4:54 pm

   Heaping justified blame on Moveon for aligning themselves with oppotunistic Democrats and not praising to the skies the voices crying in the wilderness , Lee , Woolsey , Waters , Watada … is reprehensible .

   I cannot believe how dim-witted even progressive journalists are. You are all pundits.

   When and only when Gandhi openly defied the laws of the British occupational forces in India by innocuously spinning cotton and making salt did the occupation start its irreversible decline .

   When and only when civil rights marchers defied the commands of state troopers to disperse from the Edmund Pettus Bridge did Americans through live-television coverage of the brutality really start to be revulsed with the evil of segragation.

   When and only ALL Americans defy the White House , Pentagon , Congress and the entire industrial-military complex by publicly and aggressively ” Supporting the Troops ” , home or abroad by encouraging them to desert en masse with approval of the American public ,
   will the de-occupation start .

   Anything less is just so much psuedo-clever talk .

4. ricg March 19th, 2007 4:56 pm

   I’ve not been happy with MoveOn’s moves. For me, if MO wants to play with the big boys by the big boys’ rules, their move speaks to the corrosive corruption of getting into the beds in DC. We need organizations and people that stand up and throw punches, not lay down and make nice. That’s why the U.S. press has gotten so bad over the years - they’re more interested in personal status than in news, in being petted by the pols than in finding the truth. As for MoveOn, I’m cutting loose and moving on. It won’t hurt them, but it works for me.

5. PJD March 19th, 2007 4:58 pm

   “Move-On should put out a call to occupy congressional offices, both in D.C. and in each state….”

   Didn’t you read the article? Ever since the last election, Move On and this Eli Pariser guy (no doubt a fiend of AIPAC) have been just a sold-out subsidiary of the democratic party establishment.

   Sorry to say, but soldiers who lost their lives, limbs, and minds in Iraq did not make any kind of “sacrifice” for of me or anyone else, except for the greed and power-lust of those at the top. The truthful word is “pitifully decieved people whose lives were wasted participating in a horrific crime againt an entire nation of tens of millions of people”.

   If you want to hold a vigil for that, fine.

6. wilmoor March 19th, 2007 5:46 pm

   I’ve always wondered what would happen if one day the guys at the top started a war and no one came. I agree with Ronald White - we should support the troups by encouraging them to desert en masse. We should all be supporting those who’ve refused to fight in this war too, like the one in Seattle - can’t recall his name - Wattada or something like that.

   We sure can’t spread any word on anything via the “liberal” media!

7. KLY March 19th, 2007 7:35 pm

   Please consider something new.

   There are no wise decisions available to America in Iraq, while we continue to officially proclaim our destructive and foolish Bush Doctrine.

   It’s our American foreign policy that needs changing, not merely our military tactics.

   America must:
   1) Acknowledge our errors, not merely ascribe blame to others and to flawed implementation.

   2) Renounce our failed Bush Doctrine - the sections that assert unto the USA first-strike prerogatives and permanent global hegemony. (No nation is wise enough or trustworthy enough to rule the world alone.)

   3) Abandon regime change as a strategy. (It’s their business after all, no ours. Nearly always, USA sponsored regime change results in calamity both for us and for the other nation as well.)

   4) Abide by international standards of justice.

   5) Insist upon reliable, reputable evidence and genuine analysis - not act upon guesswork, faith, and fear.

   6) Accept the fact that others desire a prosperous USA that can purchase their raw materials, products and services. (As long as America is prosperous, we can pay for the petroleum and other resourses that we require.)

   7) Cease squandering our trustworthiness, our integrity, and our children’s prosperity on warmongering and intimidation.

   These changes must begin with the American citizen. Our elected officials and opinion makers fear stepping too far ahead of the public on policy reversals such as this. We - the everyday citizen - must show the way.

   KLY

8. mwildfire March 19th, 2007 7:40 pm

   Here’s my proposal for getting out of the war, or more importantly, for a response if Bush does get away with an attack on iran:
   All of us immediately drop whatever we’re doing to converge on Washington DC and surround the Capitol, demanding that the Congress toss the criminals out of the White House. Those who can, stay there, refusing to leave until this is done, with support (food, money, crashpad space) from everyone in the area. Those with jobs and families return home–but come Monday EVERYONE participates in a general strike. No work, no going to classes, no buying anything, country-wide. Foreigners could particpate by refusing to purchase anything made by a US-based company. Back to work Tuesday–but if we have no satisfaction by the following Monday, it’s back to the general strike and this time Tuesday is included. I doubt we’d have to come to the third week, with a general strike from Monday through Wednesday. Something would be done, if we got good participation–and I think it’s possible!

9. Gail March 19th, 2007 8:38 pm

   When was the last time (if ever) Move-On sent out a questionaire to ask its members what issues they would like MO to focus on… why those issues are important to you…and how you would like our congressional leaders to handle them?

   There’s no question that Move-On has focused on some very important issues, but they have also left many other important issues behind. Whose agenda are they focusing their attention on?

10. vaughn1111 March 19th, 2007 8:47 pm

    Move on regularly asks it’s members which issues should Move On focus on. People need tp be aware of that before attacking the organization. I hope they will continue on the path they’re on.

    We all need to realize that Move On is only one organization and if that’s all the neocons have to fear, we’re all lost. If Move On asks it’s members to disobey the law, Move On will be seriously attacked and become ineffective by the Gonzales rule of law.

11. vaughn1111 March 19th, 2007 8:53 pm

    Matter of fact there is a vigil in my home town tonight that was organized by Move On. The only vigil/protests since the Viet Nam War.

12. pangolin March 19th, 2007 9:41 pm

    This is just one example of the concentrated efforts of the DLC and DNC to purge the Net of dissident voices on the left.

    Not only MOVE ON but blogs such as Democratic Underground and DailyKos have been banning any posters overly critical of Hillary, Obama, Edwards or AIPAC’s insistance on an attack on Iran. Those that insist that we leave Iraq immediatly are quickly shunted aside.

    Edwards blog is just a joke. Instead of an actual discussion of policy alternatives it consists of hero worship and endless me-too posts.

    Other areas where there is a concerted net purge is any response to Climate Change other than carbon trading schemes favored by Washington insiders.

    Carbon trading does little to eliminate emissions and allows connected insiders to buy indulgences (carbon offsets) to destroy the atmosphere while the poor suffer. Point this out on DU, Kos, or Edwards blog and you’re banned.

    Don’t expect any movement from Move On or from any of the large blogs associated with the Democratic leadership; they’ve sold out.

13. starofthesea March 19th, 2007 9:44 pm

    MoveOn lost my trust as soon as it became clear that their “credibility” was more important than speaking truth to power. Makes ya wonder, doesn’t it, if anyone is able to resist the allure of being taken seriously by the power brokers? So much so that they quickly jump onboard the train cuz riding first class is so much more fun than waving protest signs as the train roars by. Sigh. Where have all the firebrands gone and why do they not rise to the top????

14. orbit7er March 19th, 2007 9:51 pm

    Once again, all we need is 34 US Senators to filibuster any Iraq War funding.
    That’s it.
    That should be the strategy.
    Without funding the War cannot Constitutionally go on…

15. worddancer March 19th, 2007 11:47 pm

    What a relief to have my unease with MoveOn articulated.

    To their last request for money, I responded as follows: ‘If I wanted to donate to the Democratic Party, I would do so. Until MoveOn makes the commitment to ACTIVELY OPPOSE THE WAR IN IRAQ and to take steps to bring it to an end, I can’t continue to support it.’

16. Vince Lawrence March 20th, 2007 12:33 am

    I was a very early member and supporter of MoveOn until the success of the organization seemed to go to its leaders heads.

    I can form my own conclusions, thank you very much, and originally composed messages to our Congress critters are much more effective than mass mailings and pre-written statements.

    There are no good options for the Democrats in Congress, so knowing that, why not aim for the fence, bring the war supporters into stark contrast with majority public opinion and remember - always remember - that there are more of these war-mongers up for re-election in the next cycle.

17. JH March 20th, 2007 12:44 am

    Bickering isn’t going to get the job done. Doing something, moving on from MoveOn, taking action as each sees fit, as long as individuals who oppose George’s War and the administration’s policies take action in some concrete way will have an effect. It’s useless to gripe at each other when the real problem lives at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. (and his buddy dick). Presidential candidates need to keep hearing from the grassroots that we want George’s War to stop. If enough non-organized voices keep cropping up, they might realize it isn’t only MoveOn, it’s a lot of us other folks who vote, and support causes, but don’t join movements.

18. Michael Boyter March 20th, 2007 1:09 am

    Take Action To End this War Now. BUSH CHENEY ARE Criminal Felons, War Profiteers, and Murders, They Need to be investigated, and stand trial for Treason During time of Manufactured war. Take Back American from these Thugs Now.

19. Thebigkate March 20th, 2007 1:46 am

    I disagree that MoveOn does not have a stand on ending the Iraq War. This is a MoveON priority, and to that end, we are supporting the Murtha bill. Will it pass–maybe not, but not because MoveOn has not written and lobbied for it! This is one step at a time, and I think MoveOn is doing just that–and carefully not burning bridges as they do.

    This is a savvy, well organized group, and they are not bought off by AIPAC or any other big money lobbying group! Get that straght!!!!

    Kate Madison
    Depoe Bay, Oregon

20. lor8 March 20th, 2007 6:40 am

    Stop Shopping Now.

    Our purchasing power is the only voice we have left. Asking gov’t or political organizations to speak for us has actually become an abdication of our individual responsibility because we have become too comfortable. Time for a 2007 version of the Boston Tea Party:

    1) send a message to gov’t and the corporations who own it that we won’t be children lulled into silence by cheap toys.

    2) everytime we deny ourselves something we want but don’t need, we can pause and remember that our kids are sacrificing their lives.

    3) start saving. The US borrows trillions from China because Americans don’t save. When China wants payback, they won’t want our increasingly worthless dollar. They may want New York.

21. Lobo Gris March 20th, 2007 7:11 am

    I have a lot of respect for Murtha having also served in Viet Nam, but his bill is way to complicated, and even if it passes the House is likely to get filibustered in the Senate or vetoed by Bush along with false charges that the Democrats are witholding funds from the troops.

    What is needed is a straight up or down vote on a funding bill with no fancy footwork included. That way the voters can at least decide on which weasels need to be thrown out in the 2008 election if it passes.

    No Democratic bill really mandates getting out of Iraq until summer or fall of 2008 anyway. Which doesn’t have a nickels worth of difference between withdrawing then or in the Spring of 2009 when an anti-war president will take office if the voters are given a choice.

    The truly anger inducing part of all of this now is that the voters may not be given that choice, at least by the two major parties. I read that Clinton, Obama, and Edwards, the front runners on the Democratic side, are now talking about a continuing need to maintain a military presence in Iraq even after the election, and you know that the Republicans will if they are elected.

    This abomination of a war that should have never been started was lost before it began and no amount of fudging around is going to save it.

    It is truly time for a third party candidate to become President. One that will commit to withdrawing troops immediately upon taking office. The question is does the American voter have the guts to finally do it and break the spell of the duopoly that has been running this country into the ground for decades?

    Lobo Gris

22. MichaelPDA March 20th, 2007 9:53 am

    Though biased, I support the Progressive Democrats of America. You don’t get a email from the man behind the curtain about the issue du jour. They have a platform on the issues, and they stand behind it.

    They have stood firm and backed Lee’s H.R. 508 (The Safe and Orderly Withdrawal resolution). They are grassroots in that the movement is built from the bottom up and make a stand on issues and say what that stand is. They work to add support to the Congressional Progressive Caucus members and to expand their numbers. Their plan,m a long term one, is to reshape the Democratic Party to be a party that speaks with the progressive voice, one that chooses citizens over the corporations. I suggest of you do not have a chapter in your CD, then you start one and start organizing. We have to build the movmement for change from the bottom up, not the top down. And though Move-on can elicit a large response and get many donations,

    I believe the PDA approach is the practical, roll-up-your-sleaves-and-get-to-work strategy that will bring about change. We have to build and sustain a movement, and we have to support those who stand tall in Congress and work to elect others who will stand tall. Though I identify with many of the ideas of the Nadarites and the Greens, starting a third party is pracitcally impossible at this time in America. Let’s take the Democratic Party and refashion it around principles of a sane and shared responsibility in addressing problems, both foreign and domestic. In truth, the American people are much more progressive than even they think when asked about how they stand on issues (such as single payer health care, international cooperation, fair work rules, etc).

    If we can reshape the Party and election rules (such as instituting Instand Run Off Voting, and publically financed elections) the space will be made for other parties to join the game and we can get at a consensus politics listens to the voices of the minority rather than the minority that now rules–the corporate and monied elite, the oligarchs.

    Wee http://www.pdamerica.com, and forgive the commercial but we need to begin buiding the beast that can change the way things are now done.

23. MichaelPDA March 20th, 2007 9:55 am

    Forgive all typos above.

24. MichaelPDA March 20th, 2007 10:03 am

    I should say, that even in my home state, I have seen the state party operate in much the same way. They use pseudo-progressive groups (and I am not calling Move-on pseudo-progressive or am I saying that they are used by the national party–I don’t know enough about them to make qualified statements) to try to gather the progressives under their tent so that they can use and rein in their energy for their own purposes. These psuedo-progressive groups bandy about the word “progressive” as if any grass roots group is by definition progressive. None make an across the board stand on the issues, or say exactly who they are and what they stand for.

    They don’t have much respect for progressives, and they see them more as a hemorrhaging cut that needs to be stopped. They tend to see them as naive and treat them as such.

25. MichaelPDA March 20th, 2007 10:06 am

    http://www.pdamerica.org (Wrong link in the above post)

26. Shane March 20th, 2007 10:58 am

    Kate Madison said: “This is a savvy, well organized group, and they are not bought off by AIPAC or any other big money lobbying group!”

    How do you explain MoveOn’s total silence during the Israeli invasion of Lebanon?

    I was an early member of MO, but abandoned it because of it’s racist principles last summer.

27. Blueapples March 20th, 2007 1:09 pm

    In my opinion the PTB have bought/muted Move-On.org to be less relevant now and in the future. I use to think marching and protesting against the war and policies of the current administration with ten of thousands like-minded humans would change our elected and non-elected to stop the madness. Then I woke up from the haze of this artificially created land of the free culture. The only way to stop the war profiteers from making money from the blood of this planet is to storm the Bastille as the French people did. This includes taking over the congress, the White House, the Pentagon, Wall Street and all the halls in which the purveyors of death who have profited from this war reside. A REVOLUTION IS NEEDED. We in this country have been so entrained not to question this so called authority. We pay our taxes, watch WWF, NFL, NHL, NCAA, CBS, NBC, ABC, FOX while eating our MC Donald’s, Burger King, Wendy’s, Pizza Hut, Krispy Kreme, Cheesecake Factory and drinking Coke, Pepsi, Starbucks and Red Bull. When we start feeling bad we take our TUMS to settle our stomachs. Taking PROZAC is now a family affair to make us feel happy continuously because the self medicated shopping spree to get the latest Apple Ipod, Nintendo Wii, razor cell phone or Ray Bans has started to wear off. We don’t want to face that we are wage slaves working longer hours for less and at the same time piling up the debt so we can buy crap that doesn’t make us happy. Thank you Edward Bernays and Madison Avenue, we couldn’t feel this way without you. Please raise your hands if you like what this country has become. I thought so. The hard part is the doing part. Gandhi did it…Martin Luther King did it… it won’t be easy but a big dose of courage is what is needed to get us started. Only you and I will be able to change what we have become. Who is with us…? To be continued…

28. moveonmem March 20th, 2007 2:05 pm

    Mr.Stauber&Rampton: It is not MoveOn’s place to set a time table for the withdrawal of our troops in Iraq. MoveOn is simply the voice of millions of loyal Americans saying enough is enough. The congress and the administration need to listen to the people. MoveOn is not the only voice telling this administration to bring an end to this madness. If your eyes and ears were open,you would see and hear the hundreds of coalitions that are not part of MoveOn. These coalitions represent millions more of the American people, and they share the same message as MoveON. We are tired of seeing our youth offered up as sacrificial lambs in what was an ill concieved war that has become an outright civil war. You attack MoveOn and the millions of American voices that want to give our young people a chance to fulfill their destiny,not have their lives cut short or horribly changed forever.This sir is support.

29. moveonmem March 20th, 2007 2:20 pm

    TO:Gail, Move on consistently polls our membership about what is most important to them on an individual level. The focus on the war in Iraq is what we the members have decided to deal with. Find a local meeting and attend. See for yourself.

30. Howard G March 20th, 2007 10:34 pm

    I agree that MOve On. org has moved to the center and is not allowing its members to voice their real opinions. Centrist politicing is compromising at great costs. The main cost is the loss of principled thinking. As our candidates listen to consultants and polling of uninformed citizens, the ideas and ideals are lost. The only candidate who is free from this is Dennis Kucinich. I find his personality greatly lacking, but his thinking refreshing. It is too bad that Barack or Edwards are chained to party thinking. Our nation is hungering for true leaders. Bland Kuncinich is the only free thinker but could never attract votes with his dead personality. We are doomed to mediocre leadership.

31. Harvey March 20th, 2007 10:54 pm

    I am trying to respect everyone’s opinion in the feedback/reactions to the Stauber & Rampton piece, but my feeling is the reasoning and points made are very sound and compelling. I lost much of my initial enthusiasm for MoveOn as they became more and more affiliated with the Democratic Party, but had been (grudgingly) willing to accept the need for some compromise in goals and standards.

    Reading this piece, however, was a painful wake-up to the truth that MoveOn and other so-called liberal, progressive efforts have sold out their ethics and moral grounding. I know this may sound harsh to some, but I ask anyone to explain ANY of the damning points made in the article. For example, why not support the Lee Amendment? More tellingly, perhaps, why was that option not even included in the “poll” of MoveOn members?

    I guess, sadly, it’s really true that power corrupts. The one hope I have is that MoveOn leaders have the humility and courage to recognize and admit how they have strayed from their initial moral grounding in true populism, and renew their commitment to the values they were founded on!

32. gmkaake March 20th, 2007 11:49 pm

    Let us all join together as progressives - let us remind each other of the values that we all share. Remember these values; keep your eyes focused on them. Push forward in any way that comes available and feels right to you. The tide has turned, and we are rising together. We have nothing to fear but fear itself.

33. nipponreddog March 21st, 2007 12:27 am

    I have to agree with John Stauber on the MoveOn direction under Exec. Dir. Eli Pariser has taken by supporting the Democratic Party, and pulling back from even mentioning either Lee’s bill nor HR 14 by Rep. Jones (which would require Bush to get explicit Congresssional approval before attacking Iran).

    Move On not speaking up in opposition to the Israel attack on Lebanon, refusal to demand withdrawal from Iraq now, and silence on the steady build-up by Bush for any attack on Iran by the USA and possibly Israel, shows the bankruptcy of Pariser and the leadership moving to trade electoral political power for principle and ethics, as well as Kowtowing to AIPAC.

    You can see the cynical electoral strategy described by Stauber implemented by media types who used the opposition to the Iraq War to create politcal support for the Democrats heretofore, now silent in calling for Pelosi and crew to move on impeachment, end funding for the Iraq War now, and HR 14, Lee measures, etc. which would stop Bush’s coming attack on Iran. It seems like about the only presidential candidate for the Democratic Pary who is not hesitating to take clear strong positions on the above is Kuchinich.

    A good example of this shift would be KGO Talk show host Ray Taliaferro in San Francisco, who now only wants to tell his listeners that the Presidency in 2008 is all that matters. He will even shout down and berate callers-in who question the current wishy-washy non-actions of Pelosi and the Democracts afraid to be labled responsible for “losing Iraq” in the 2008 elections.

    As fro Eli Pariser of MoveOn, his own words from the past indict his present policies.

    Here is how he was quoted in the Austin Chronicle back in 2003:

    >>AC: Do you think of yourselves as a Democrat organization?

    EP: No, we’re not affiliated with the Democratic Party, and I think a lot of credibility comes from that, because we are able to exert torque on the party from the outside. While many of our members agree with the party, we are in a position that we don’t owe the Democrats anything.

34. imajane March 21st, 2007 9:02 am

    To Howard G.:
    Kucinich may appear to be a bit dull at first, but he’s the only one thinking clearly about this, and you seemed to agree. That shines him up in my book! Don’t count him out yet! Hillary never did get it right about the Iraq war, and the others aren’t courageous enough to stand FIRM. I’m ready to seriously consider Kucinich. He’s out on that impeachment limb right now too. Takes guts.

35. NotOneMore.US March 22nd, 2007 1:05 am

    Move-on has moved to the right, or maybe that’s where they always were.

    And while I did admire Kucinich (switching from the green party to democratic so I could vote for him), in the end he put party loyalty ahead of principles when he withdrew from the democratic presidential primary.

    If we want a different outcome, we have to act (and do) things differently.

    Move-on has made themselves irrelevant for anybody interested in peace and justice.

    Take action for Peace, not posturing for votes.

    AG

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