35 Comments so far

1. Lobo Gris March 20th, 2007 2:57 pm

   The problem being of course that despite proof of voting irregularities, we have still have had to put up with Bush for six years with a little less than two still to go.

   Lobo Gris

2. Tailgaterone1 March 20th, 2007 3:44 pm

   The more I read about our government,the more I fear our representative government is simply window dressing. Election campaigns do not even discuss intelligently the issues really on the minds of the majority. It is no wonder less than half of the elible electorate bother to vote for the republicrats. As far as I am concerned the elections are stolen by the major media even before the votes are cast. Let’s face the facts. Democracy’s are short-lived anomalies in history….fuedalism ultimately is the staple of the dull masses.

3. Gail March 20th, 2007 5:15 pm

   “Felony convictions have also resulted in 18-month prison sentences for two employees of the Cuyahoga BOE as a result of what the county prosecutor in the case calls the “rigging” of the outcome in the recount following the 2004 presidential election.”

   “Behold, O kind and most sweet Jesus, I cast myslef upon my knees in thy sight (of justice), and with the most fervent desire of my soul I pray and beseech thee that thou wouldst impress upon my heart lively sentiments of faith, hope, and charity.”

   My prayers have been answered…..and hope lives on!

   Were we not all put here in God’s image? Well, it’s about time we behaved as if we were!

4. gladstone March 20th, 2007 5:32 pm

   Too much talk about what happened in ‘04 and not enough about what probably will happen again in ‘08. No doubt there’ll a repeat, since this seems to be something most of us are still in denial about. (Thanks, corporate media). No, a stolen election would NEVER happen here. Think again.

5. Jaded Prole March 20th, 2007 7:02 pm

   It seems obvious to me that any convictions for fraud in the Ohio election delegitimaize this administration. We can’t undo that last 3 years but we can correct the error by removing these thugs from their stolen positions post haste.

6. Bogbug March 20th, 2007 8:42 pm

   Crazy idea, instead of relying on the MSM (duh) how about a catchy tune reworded from the
   Pretenders’ “My City was gone” http://www.pretenders.org/lymy.htm
   “A O Way to Go O-Hi-O !” Read the lyrics, it takes only some minor rewording to tell the story reported here. Better yet, get them to sing it and put it on YouTube.

7. kelmer March 20th, 2007 9:35 pm

   If we were put here in God’s image we are behaving exactly as the gods do–violent, arrogant, petty, unfair…

8. iammyself March 20th, 2007 9:36 pm

   More electronic voting machine “errors” just occurred in Florida (yes…again).

   Jaded Prole…I agree, get rid of the thugs, but if we leave the easily rigged electronic machines in place, more thugs will follow. These things need to be removed from the system. Human nature is such that anything other than the obvious (paper ballot) can and will be tampered with.

   Oh, and by the way…to those who still (still, can you believe it?) blame Nader for Bush’s election: Please, exit stage right – you’re part of the problem.

9. stoneface March 20th, 2007 11:46 pm

   If nothing changes, nothing changes.
   I fear that’s our fate in the
   stolen elections arena. We have become a Banana Republic, lock your doors, don’t use the phone or your credit cards, the public library or
   your voice. Be afraid, be very afraid.

10. Chuck Cliff March 21st, 2007 1:10 am

    Excellent, detailed reporting.

    And so little coverage in the MSM controlled by the Bankers of Illusion.

    On the other hand, those who want to know find alternative information sources on the internet — so, ignorance is no excuse.

    Voter fraud is inherrent on the two-party system to which Tailgater1 alluded above, that and electronic voting machines.

    In Denmark, with a multiparty system, paper ballots AND automatic voter registration, fraud is not only rare, but quite difficult.

11. shz March 21st, 2007 2:23 am

    If I robbed banks in 2000 and 2004 and was caught…..I’d have to give back what I had left and serve time in prison!

    So…………Make W give back what is left, and serve time, too!

12. shz March 21st, 2007 2:25 am

    Truth is, we didn’t have elections in 2000 or 04, and I doubt we’ll have elections in 08. It’s likely we won’t even have a sham election.

13. Lobo Gris March 21st, 2007 5:20 am

    #
    gladstone March 20th, 2007 5:32 pm

    “Too much talk about what happened in ‘04 and not enough about what probably will happen again in ‘08. No doubt there’ll a repeat, since this seems to be something most of us are still in denial about. (Thanks, corporate media). No, a stolen election would NEVER happen here. Think again.”

    The alarm was sounded prior the the 2006 elections. Apparently someone heard because the Democrats deployed an Army of poll watchers and lawyers to challenge any iregularities that might occur. The result I believe was a much fairer and legitimate election.

    If you were paying attention, Karl Rove was already boasting of another Republican win prior to the elecction which didn’t happen.

    Not that it has done us any good apparently with the Democratic do nothings that took office but at least it wasn’t crooked

    The answer is to demand the same level of vigilance in 2008.

    Lobo Gris

14. Don The Engineer March 21st, 2007 9:37 am

    Interesting that both republicans & democrats are totally avoiding the issue that our electoral system is still fatally flawed.

    The fact that Secretaries of state, who are responsible for certifying that elections are & were conducted fairly are allowed to be publicly affiliated with a candidate’s election or re-election is nothing short of criminal, yet no one is talking about it. (Except me! …Still!) These types should be in prison for as long as the longest possible terms they tried to steal for their masters.

    Then there is the fact that people with more money than sense (or maybe not given the paybacks like Duke in S.D. was giving to cronies) can pay someone else to tell out and out lies about someone else in their name. How Christian is that?!! Giving money is certainly not free speech and the fact that money is or has been corrupting our leaders is the first problem that our country needs to fix. Only then can we hope to elect people who truly represent us.

    Until we limit campaigning to 90 days before any election and make the treasury print the money to pay for that, as well as what ever else they print our present fiat currency for; and only let campaign ads talk about the candidate themselves and not anyone else, we will have the government we deserve. Corrupt to the core, oppressing the world in our formerly good name, ignoring our wishes, and depositing their feces in our mess kits!

15. noun March 21st, 2007 9:45 am

    Just what is there not understood about not being able to check a result if there is nothing to check?

    The DRE machines only produce an “answer”- BY DESIGN. They are NOT intended to be checked for anything.

    How can these be considered as anything but a fraud waiting to happen?

    If you put your vote on paper it is there to stay … as long as that paper is not destroyed.

16. Lobo Gris March 21st, 2007 10:35 am

    #
    noun March 21st, 2007 9:45 am

    “Just what is there not understood about not being able to check a result if there is nothing to check?

    The DRE machines only produce an “answer”- BY DESIGN. They are NOT intended to be checked for anything.

    How can these be considered as anything but a fraud waiting to happen?”

    If you put your vote on paper it is there to stay … as long as that paper is not destroyed.

    Electronic voting machines are quite capable of producing a paper record of all votes cast and should be required to do so. Including a paper receipt for the voter to prove that the votes they cast were recorded properly.

    Lobo Gris

17. Lobo Gris March 21st, 2007 11:16 am

    Don The Engineer March 21st, 2007 9:37 am

    “Interesting that both republicans & democrats are totally avoiding the issue that our electoral system is still fatally flawed.

    The fact that Secretaries of state, who are responsible for certifying that elections are & were conducted fairly are allowed to be publicly affiliated with a candidate’s election or re-election is nothing short of criminal, yet no one is talking about it.”

    I definitely agree with you there. Mabe an independent counsel with represntatives from all of the parties on the ballot?

    “Giving money is certainly not free speech and the fact that money is or has been corrupting our leaders is the first problem that our country needs to fix. Only then can we hope to elect people who truly represent us.”

    I agree with you here too although my approach to it is different.

    I think there should be a government funded television network that would be required to provide equal time to all candidates on the ballot. You could limit campaign time by simply not allowing time on the network until 90 days before the election. Television time is the biggest expense in any campaign.

    Then, I wouldn’t prevent campaign fund raising but would limit it by allowing candidates to only raise money from those that they are going to represent. A candidate for the House could only raise money from people in his/her district. Senators only from their state. Only the Presidential and Vice Presidential campaigns would be national. Individual contributions only, no pacs, no corporate donations. No use of Corporate jets, no use of private facilities. Nothing that could influence a campaign or a candidate if they are elected to office.

    One of the bigger problems with the system now is that our lawmakers raise funds by which committees they sit on and who they regulate and write legislation on rather than who they represent.

    In addition term limits for all lawmakers. 6 terms for the House, two for the Senate and the same two for the President and Vice President as it now stands.

    No employment by or speaking fees from the Corporations they regulated or wrote legislation concerning for, for 20 years after they are out of office.

    Sorry lawmakers, if I had my way you’d have to look for a job like everyone else after leaving office.

    No lobbyists and no pacs. Make lobbying and political action committees illegal.

    There may be others that should be included but that would be a good start. Chances of it happening are about the same as my winning the lottery but it’s a nice thought anyway.

    Lobo Gris

18. Rebel Farmer March 21st, 2007 12:02 pm

    Lobo Gris:

    You could have made the whole response easier to understand if we just say that only real people have rights under the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. By doing that one little thing Corporations no longer have any “free speech” rights that they currently buy.

    This whole thing goes back to election reform as stated in the many comments made here. And none of that is going to happen at the Federal level until the States force it to happen. In Ohio they are just getting started. It’s really important to find out what went wrong in past elections so that we the people can fix it so it doesn’t happen again. And we do have the power to fix our election system! Free Press and Common Cause have spearheaded a number of different actions that are having a HUGE impact on election reforms at the State level. Check it out and get going in your individual States. Also check out Fairvote.com and National Popular Vote.

    In Oregon the people have found their voice and it’s been VERY looud in the ears of our representatives. We already have Bills in the State House and Senate that are serious election reform bills and are getting public hearings this month. Luckily, we already have “vote by mail” so we don’t have the paper trail problems.

    There is currently an Interstate Compact for Agreement Among States to Elect the President by National Popular Vote (eliminating the Electoral College and winner take all in the States)that has been introduced in the legislatures of 47 States. Are you living in one of them? Are you contacting your representatives to get this passed before the next election? …..GO! Do it NOW! Make a REAL difference and get it done!!!

19. iammyself March 21st, 2007 6:08 pm

    “Electronic voting machines are quite capable of producing a paper record of all votes cast and should be required to do so. Including a paper receipt for the voter to prove that the votes they cast were recorded properly.”

    Lobo,

    This is a slight improvement over what we have, however, the problem is that electronic voting machines are computers and they run computer programs. As a former computer programmer, I can tell you that it’s just as easy to program a computer to print out a false report as it is a real one. Maybe, in the future, the heuristics will be good enough to prevent tampering (though, I doubt it), but for now, we need to get computerized voting machines out of the electoral system. That means paper ballots and hand counting of every ballot. Labor intensive, but so worth it!

20. verdette March 21st, 2007 8:27 pm

    Several enlighten individuals have contributed great ideas on the best way to weed out money that promote campaign corruption and restore fair elections. But old addictions and habits are hard to break. And if the system works to their (Dems/Reps)advantage, where’s the motivation to fix it? The fact of the matter is, for the elitest who run this government and country, their addition to money is an addition they find difficult to walk away from. And from their perspective, the system is functioning just fine. They will take your opinions, greivences, and disapprovals and do what every respectable politician whoes under the influence will do – give you lip service, and trash it! Then, it’s back to business as usual.

21. Lobo Gris March 21st, 2007 11:07 pm

    Rebel Farmer March 21st, 2007 12:02 pm

    “There is currently an Interstate Compact for Agreement Among States to Elect the President by National Popular Vote (eliminating the Electoral College and winner take all in the States)that has been introduced in the legislatures of 47 States. Are you living in one of them? Are you contacting your representatives to get this passed before the next election? …..GO! Do it NOW! Make a REAL difference and get it done!!!”

    I am not for eliminating the electoral college. The reasons for the electoral college being established are still valid.

    If we go by the popular vote only you will soon find that the politicians will only bother campaigning and catering to the large metropolitan areas, New York city, Atlanta, Dallas/Fort Worth, L.A. etc. with the largest concentrated populations while ignoring a large part of the country that has a large land area but few people.

    The solutions that work for those large poulation concentrations don’t necessarily work well for the rural areas. The electoral college is the best system devised yet to insure that everyone gets represented.

    I think this was already discussed on another thread, and I mentioned then about an idea that would apportion electoral votes by the percentage of the popular vote each candidate receives in each state which might work to keep the best parts of both the popular vote and the electoral college. Not sure it would work but I believe it merits looking into.

    Lobo Gris

22. Lobo Gris March 21st, 2007 11:25 pm

    #
    iammyself March 21st, 2007 6:08 pm

    Lobo,

    This is a slight improvement over what we have, however, the problem is that electronic voting machines are computers and they run computer programs. As a former computer programmer, I can tell you that it’s just as easy to program a computer to print out a false report as it is a real one. Maybe, in the future, the heuristics will be good enough to prevent tampering (though, I doubt it), but for now, we need to get computerized voting machines out of the electoral system. That means paper ballots and hand counting of every ballot. Labor intensive, but so worth it!

    I have over 25 yrs of experience with computers myself and while there are definite problems with electronic voting machines they can be corrected with audits (which means no proprietary software) and seals to insure they are operating correctly and aren’t tampered with afterwards. And in addition by making each one a stand alone computer not connected to the net or a network.

    Paper ballots are a temptation but are no panacea for the problems with the voting system. Ballot boxes can be stuffed with votes favorable to a desired outcome, a common practice when we did use paper ballots, and boxes can be lost that are known to have unfavorable ones.

    Ultimately whatever system is used depends on honest poll workers and that is insured by having poll monitors from all of the intersted paries with lawyers standing by to challenge any irregularities.

    Lobo Gris

23. captainjrab March 23rd, 2007 1:38 pm

    I few conflict of interests in Ohio 06. The head of diebold, who’s from OH I believe, promises Bush victory in Ohio a year or so before the election. Blackwell is also at the time head of the re-elect Bush commitiee in Ohio. It’s like insider trading. There should be laws against this. If this situation existed with regular folks, there’d be instant lawsuits. The neocons are above the law gangsters.

24. Don The Engineer March 23rd, 2007 3:43 pm

    And then there is the issue with the machines themselves. Totally unreliable beasts. I know first hand that these machines get “tested” at nationally renowned testing facilities. Do they get tested for ease of hacking, security, corrupted code detection, etc? No. They get checked for their ability to function under temperature extremes. And they don’t even pass those.

    I happened to be at one such test facility and was told about one particular manufacturer’s unit being under test for over 3 months before passing one single temperature cycle and power up test. At that point, success was claimed, and the testing stopped. Nothing about security what-so-ever.

    Of course we now know quite a bit more about how easy it is to hack these machines. And how our government representatives routinely violate election laws with impunity (and with a bunch of jack-booted-thug cops backing them up…i.e. you, john or jane q public, do not get to exercise your (state usually) constitutional right to witness recounts) as the elections are stolen right in front of your face.

    It saddens me that our country has come to this level of apathy over our processes. Jefferson was right in claiming we needed a revolution every 25 years, but pushing 250? This is apathy and powerlessness, plain and simple. It was starting on its present path before I and my parents both were born. However, because of “opportunity” (or what passed at the time for more equal access to it) for advancement and living an easy life made them too complacent to even research how they had been lied to and cheated out of this distinctly (once) American birthright.

    Get mad, darn it!
    Fighting mad, at this point, at least in my mind, is OK, too, but this requires that progressive minded folks be willing to fight and die for their beliefs instead of allowing others to do it for them. The right (wrong though they are) may be willing to do this in significantly greater numbers, so we need to do the same.

    Buy a gun.
    Learn how to use it.
    But still try to promote change from within first.
    Change your voting registration to Green NOW.
    Lobby Gore or Moyers, or Gore and Moyers (now there’s a ticket you could get behind!!!), to come over and carry the torch on for Ralph Nader.

    Commit to going exempt on your federal taxes on April 16, 2007 and stop filing a 1040 (they can’t jail all of us) to force a tax reform issue. And not some half-@$$ed attempt at appeasement which will surely be what ‘they’ would want to give us, but real tax reform. Progressive Taxation! Educate yourself (but that’s why you’re here, isn’t it?)

    And don’t let anyone tell you the “death tax” should be abolished. It is not a death tax, for 99.999% of our decendants would not pay any tax upon our deaths. How many people have accumulated 1.5 million (3M for couples) and have not otherwise protected the inheritance? It was meant to stop the aristocracy that is now so plainly visible that people who won’t see it and fight to stop it deserve to be oppressed as the sheople they are at their cores.

    The only way to fight organized money is with ORGANIZED PEOPLE!!!

25. Johnny36 March 23rd, 2007 9:16 pm

    Jennifer Burnner is a knight in shining armor. She’s got the GOP Orcs on the run. What happens if these creeps start flipping and we find strong evidence that Ohio was really stolen? Do we get to put the Rodent and Uncle Dick in jail?

26. ajhil March 24th, 2007 6:46 am

    Blackwell’s the key, not only to discovering what went wrong in Ohio, but to linking these crimes to the White House. Anyone who believes that Karl Rove and, by extension, George Bush, were not explicitly involved in the theft of the 2000 and 2004 elections in these states should invest in a large bridge over the Hudson! Having Secretaries of State run elections – as in Florida and Ohio – is like a Chaplinesque parody; but, when one considers the tragic consequences for our nation and the world, it’s truly dark humor! Bush hopes to run out the clock by impeding investigations into fraud and corruption until he’s about to leave office, when he can pardon the major players and wipe the slate clean. The best hope for our democracy is to impeach both him and Cheney now, while the evidence is still fresh and those responsible can still be intimidated by the prospect of lengthy prison sentences. That will only occur if we – all of us – light a fire under our more timorous Democratic legislators!

27. needtoknow March 24th, 2007 11:25 am

    I’m so pleased to read that over the past few days, the passing of time has finally begun to bring this scandal to light.
    Thanks to the hard work and dedication of these two reporters, perhaps some of those who dismissed this issue of vote suppresion and other illegal acts as just the fantasy of some unhappy losers are being shown this is not the case.
    The one thing that still bothers me – and this goes back to the presidential election in 2000 – is that so many politicians who were in a position to challenge these statistical impossibilities never spoke up to support their collegues in government. Especially when not one senator would allow this issue to be discussed when the electoral votes were allowed to stand and George Bush became our 43rd president.
    Why was this so? How could Al Core simply fold and let this happen? What are the true reasons for this? Perhaps we will never know.

28. jz88keys March 26th, 2007 12:54 pm

    WHY IS THIS STILL SUCH A SECRET? Why isn’t the news media picking up this story??? Everyone on this blog should be calling, writing, or otherwise harassing the media until this is COMMON KNOWLEDGE… if we let it drop, 2008 is in jeopardy!!!

29. squanderer March 26th, 2007 10:56 pm

    There is a typo in the article:

    “precincts were hand-counted for recounting”

    should be

    “precincts were hand-picked for recounting”

30. linacamilla March 27th, 2007 4:02 am

    With all this evidence surfacing, shouldn´t it be possible to nullify the presidential election of 2004? What sounds unlikely, impossible (?) is after all, only common sense!

31. Michael Boyter March 27th, 2007 9:32 am

    Ohio Has the largest concentration of Dishonest Republican Scumbags in the Country, next to Texas, Washington DC and Florida. This evidence should be proof that this administration should be brought under investigagion, and Now, for the blatant crimes against all Americans, and The Planet as a whole. The Republican Party is a party, of Corrupted Power hungry, lying, Dishonest, Murdering, Scumbags. When the facts come out on this matter, the Republican party will crawl back under a rock in a dark cave, where all cockroaches go to hide from the light until it can be disolved into the septic system where it belongs. The end of your power is near, you corrupt Neo Con Bastards.

32. macchendra March 27th, 2007 11:24 pm

    When Hillary loses the election because no self-respecting member of the democratic wing of the democratic party will vote for her, the media will say she didn’t move to the right far enough.

    Hillary loves clusterbombs and will cross trhe isle for them.

    Peace!

33. bntihinazuny December 10th, 2007 3:09 am

    titcoperyxyki…

    exxapovozesi…

34. bnnarynupity December 10th, 2007 4:27 am

    titvanawizucy…

    excocareweci…

35. bnpatihykuwo December 27th, 2007 12:34 am

    titverizinaci…

    excitacovete…

Join the discussion:

You must be logged in to post a comment. If you haven't registered yet, click here to register. (It's quick, easy and free. And we won't give your email address to anyone.)