76 Comments so far

1. Shane March 21st, 2007 1:57 pm

   Gee, Spencer, where have you been? Many, if not most cars today comply with the “Vanguard” design. But that does not mean that such a design is the design for the future. Au contraire! This is still an antiquated design, and fortunately, car manufacturers, while still protecting their profits, have embarked on a generation-long re-education policy to wean people from dinosaur juice to electric and/or hybrid. I think we all see ethanol as urinating into the wind (except the Administration and farmers).

2. zeitgeist March 21st, 2007 3:40 pm

   I agree with Shane, where have you been Spencer. GM already killed the all electric car of tomorrow, yesterday. The U.S. should have broken its gluttonous carbon fuel addiction back in the 1970’s, but instead chose to ride the profitable, dictatorial coat-tails of oil company executives (Halliburton/Cheney). As I heard a market analyst once say, “If you’ve got the meter running on the American people, you’ve got the best game in town.” Is this the lifestyle we are defending and killing for? Is there really an energy shortage, or only a shortage of ideas on how to maintain a metered dependence for any new free energy innovations? The earth swims in energy that is non-polluting and doesn’t require a meter. It is unfortunate that any new revolutionary ideas are militarized, with the patents horded so that nothing moves forward, and a state of dependence is maintained.

3. opeluboy March 21st, 2007 7:17 pm

   Where’s my electric RAV4?

4. PJD March 21st, 2007 8:52 pm

   Why not just re-build cities where you don’t need a car at all? Why the utter lack of imagination?

   It isn’t like walkable, transit-friendly, mom-and-pop, car-optional neighborhoods are completely extinct. I lived in a one in Pittsburgh, until the job moved to the burbs. I regret leaving.

   Now, weather permitting, I use a battery-electric motor scooter for routine errands and commuting in the inner suburb where I live. EV’s, even those with with ordinary lead-acid batteries are emminently practical for 90% of waht cars are used for with a simple charging infrastructure, like parking-meter electric outlets.

   But to the greatest extent, cities should be rebuilt to get rid of cars altogether. Of couse, that would mean the end of the whole big-box, big-detroit, McMansion capitalist economy.

5. PJD March 21st, 2007 8:56 pm

   It is articles like this that stopped my contributions to the UCS a few years ago. They resemble the Democratic party, sold-out and seem to make avoidance of offending their rich donors oficial policy…

6. ralph 442 March 21st, 2007 9:53 pm

   I agree with PJD cars are contraindicated in most urban environments. Just like the antiquated drug laws, they cause more harm then good.

   Some day in the future people will view the historic past that any person could drive their own car, of any size and power with only themselves in it, as we today look back on !800’s, where one could go down to the slave dock and buy a human being and do just about any damn thing we wanted with them….. People will just shake their heads in wonderment.

   As to ethanol, any honest 30 minute internet search of the subject will reveal that ethanol is bag of horse shit wrapped in a silk purse. Mr Quong actually mentions corn based ethanol which won’t save us a nickel in energy cost but will line the pockets of corporate agribusiness’s. My wife and I stopped eating corn over a year ago when we found out what and ecological disaster it is by needing to many resources (water, oil based fertilizers and pesticides, etc.), that it is not an eco friendly food. Any brief summery of “The Carnivores Dilemma” will show that about 80% of fast (”Junk”) food is corn based. A very dangerous mono-crop to feed a dangerous mono-thinking populous.

   What to help the environment? Start by being a vegetarian (which would include eating lots of locally grown organic food), walking, biking and if you can afford it, get a hybrid…. Oh, …. and try to vote for an honest-to-god liberal democrat, if you can find one besides Kucinich and Waxman.

7. orbit7er March 21st, 2007 11:20 pm

   Here was an interesting statistic from New Jersey which actually has mass transit-
   over 50% of New Jersey’s greenhouse gases come from transportation. Of course over 90% of that is cars and trucks.
   If gas taxes were raised and parking subsidies eliminated so that people car pooled instead of the average 1.2 riders per vehicle the greenhouse gases could be almost cut in half from transportation.
   But if mass transit were seriously supported as an option for local transport greenhouse gases could be cut by 90% from transportation!
   Luckily for me I live in a 150 year old community where I can walk to the Post Office, Library, grocery store, 5 restaurants and the train station which I use to get to my job in Jersey City. But this should be the model for every community.
   I was shocked when I started a new job in Jersey City that the parking tax subsidy was higher than the mass transit subsidy for a monthly train pass. Huh??
   We need to push for local mass transit, Amtrak national rail, and pedestrian and bicycle friendly communities.
   NOT some panacea of more fuel efficient cars which not only gobble up oil and spew forth pollution but lead to obesity, vast expanses of asphalt for driving and parking which could be green, and also lead to some 50,000 deaths per year.

8. Chuck Cliff March 22nd, 2007 2:31 am

   AW!

   Spencer must feel like a trampoline, the way youse guys jumped on him.

   But I guess y’all are right, the internal combustion engine is a dinosaur and we need to adapt — fast.

   Fast? THAT is where the shoe pinches, as the Danes say — there are still very strong money interests that will delay adaptation and, when it becomes obvious even to those blinded by money, it may be too late…

9. Lobo Gris March 22nd, 2007 9:58 am

   Chuck Cliff March 22nd, 2007 2:31 am

   But I guess y’all are right, the internal combustion engine is a dinosaur and we need to adapt — fast.

   Actually an internal combustion engine that uses hydrogen for fuel produces zero polutants. The only by product is water, water that is clean enough that you can drink it if you want.

   In addition hydrogen can be produced from sources that create zero polution. Solar panel and wind energy produced electricity can be used to crack water into it’s primary components 2 parts hydrogen, one part oxygen.

   Lobo Gris

10. PJD March 22nd, 2007 11:19 am

    “Actually an internal combustion engine that uses hydrogen for fuel produces zero polutants.”

    Yes, but th IC engine, as it is used in typical traffic, is less than 15% thermally efficient - and that’s not counting the energy used in production ad refining of teh gasoline. This is compared to a permanent-magnet electric motor which is up tp 95% effeicent, batteries and charging system, about 90% efficient. So with all renewable energy being used to replade dirty sources ther would be very little left to electrolyse wate, which is only 60% efficient or so.

    Hydrogen is just more BS - it would really have to be made from natural gas or coal and produce large amounts of CO2 emissions.

    The really existing plan should be car-free urbam planning, and the use of battery electrics while transitioning to such communities.

    It is important to understand that the car has metastasised, like a cancer, way, way beyond it’s original function of replacing the horse and buggy. In the horse and buggy days, generally only businesses that needed to do local hauling, farmers, and a few rich people owned them. Ordinary people didn’t need a horse - they could walk, an electric streetcar, of frequent train service everywhere they needed to go.

11. pangolin March 22nd, 2007 7:25 pm

    If we are going to reduce greenhouse gas emissions the 90% that would be needed to curb the growth of global warming personal cars are NOT going to be an option.

    Go to http://www.xtracycle.com/ to look at what kind of loads you can carry comfortably on a bicycle and with a electric assist like a stokemonkey (cleverchimp.com/) even out of shape folks can climb hills or handle long commutes comfortably on a bike.

    America used to have the best public transit system in the world in the form of electrified trolley systems that went all through eastern cities. Trolleys still offer comfortable, cheap transit alternatives to endless rounds of freeway expansion followed by further gridlock.

    For folks who insist on having cars Calcars.org has toyota prius hybirds converted to charge off a standard wall plug offering a proven 100 mpg. vehicle with existing technology.

    You have to wonder why we are talking about averaging less than 40 mpg when 100 mpg is available? It’s the same reason GM destroyed america’s trolley systems.

12. PJD March 22nd, 2007 10:14 pm

    Or, go here, for something that can actually be used in traffic…

    http://www.evtamerica.com/
    http://www.vectrix.com/

13. Lobo Gris March 23rd, 2007 3:49 am

    PJD March 22nd, 2007 11:19 am

    “Hydrogen is just more BS - it would really have to be made from natural gas or coal and produce large amounts of CO2 emissions.”

    And why would it have to be made from coal or natural gas rather than from solar and wind?

    I willing to listen to your argument but you have to support it with facts. Not just make unsupported statements and expect them to be accepted because you say them.

    As for the 15% efficiency, it doesn’t matter if the source is zero pollution and the engine running on hydrogen is also. Not to mention the fact that hydrogen is the most plentiful element on Earth.

    One thing that all of electric proponents don’t mention is what is going to be done with all those batteries when they wear out and have to be replaced. They are toxic and will have to be put some place at the end of their useful life.

    Lobo Gris

14. Lobo Gris March 23rd, 2007 7:02 am

    A couple more points:

    The 100 MPG figure is derived from urban driving where the hybrid uses the batteries almost 100% of the time. As soon as you drive greater distances and the batteries discharge the IC motor has to be used and that MPG figure drops dramatically. Also hybrids modified to produce that MPG figure depend on being plugged into the electric grid overnight to recharge and that electricity has to be produced somehow. If it is produced from solar and wind energy fine but if from coal or natural gas then some of the polution reduction advantage is reduced.

    I’m not pinging hybrids and I think they are a good idea as part of the mix to reduce global warming and our dependence on foreign oil. I just think we should look at them realistically rather than presenting them as some type of wonder machine that is going to solve all of our problems.

    As for ethanol, I think people miss the point. Ethanol isn’t about reducing global warming gases, it is about reducing our dependence on foreign oil and not allowing others to control our economy with price spikes and embargos. Again it isn’t an end solution but it can be implemented quickly and should be part of the interim mix.

    The fact is that no single solution is going to solve the problem completely. It will take a mix of technologies and ideas such as the one presented by PJD earlier in the thread to design cities so that cars aren’t needed.

    One other idea is to rebuild our rail system, not just to haul passengers, but to haul freight. Four diesel locomotives pulling 100+ freight cars is a heck of a lot more efficient than 100 diesel trucks hauling the same approximate load.

    Lobo Gris

15. PJD March 23rd, 2007 11:05 am

    Lobo,

    “And why would it have to be made from coal or natural gas rather than from solar and wind?”

    By “solar and wind” I assume you mean generatiing hydrogen using electrolysis of water, with solar and wind as the electricity sources. This breaks water into hydrogen and oxygen, and since it is practical to only use the hydrogen, and dump the oxygen, the hydrolysis efficnency is only about 60%. Considering that a changeover to renewable energy sources are going to already only be practical in conjunction with large efficency and conservation improvements. If we are going to call on this system to power all out transportation as well, I just don’t see enough spare solar and wind power being available to afford this inefficiency. It is much more efficient to power the vehicle directly with electricity using overhead catenary (trolley wire) electric to power vehicles or battery electrics. Overhead wires can be, and are, used on more than just electric trains and trolleys. Toronto and a lot of European cities use “trackless trolleys” or electric trolley buses, battery-electric power could power the bus on parts of it’s route that don’t have overhead wires. Also, open-pit mines often use trolley wires to power the big electric haul trucks out of the pit.

    There is no reason this could not be adapted to smaller vehicles as well - we could rig the entire interstate system with overhead power wires. Batteries fill in the gap where overhead power isn’t available. This could even be extended to agriculture - tractors and combines could be powered by electrifying the already existiing pivot-arm irrigation equipment, for example.

    So, just sitting here, I’ve come up this stuff - this is what I mean by a profound, and probably deliberate, lack of imagination!

    But, if a super-abundant energy source becomed avaialble-like deuterium-or He3 hydrogen fusion, perhaps electrolysis becomes practical. But for now, the biggest proponets of hydrogen have close ties with the oil/coal industry.

    Also, I havn’t yet discussed the difficulties of hydrogen storage and transportation.

    Next:

    “what is going to be done with all those batteries when they wear out and have to be replaced. They are toxic and will have to be put some place at the end of their useful life.”

    Currently, virtually every lead-acid battery is 100% recycled, no lead or acid is normally released to the environment. With current lead prices, the industry is not about to waste any, even if there weren’t laws prohibiting dumping of lead waste. Even the plastic cases get reused.

    Emerging battery techmologies, like lithium ion, use non-toxic materials - but would still be completely recycled, because of the value of the battery materials.

16. chris March 23rd, 2007 3:10 pm

    I can’t believe Lobo Gris said this:
    “As for the 15% efficiency, it doesn’t matter if the source is zero pollution and the engine running on hydrogen is also. Not to mention the fact that hydrogen is the most plentiful element on Earth.”

    You still have to pay for energy no matter how you get it, so why squander 4 times your energy need because you buy the hook line and sinker that hydrogen is the way to go that Shell Oil is pushing? I’ll take an EV1 any day over a silly hydrogen car. Secondly, hydrogen is the most common in the universe, and in the sun, but on earth it is way down the list, below oxygen, silicon and aluminum. Even in the oceans, which only make up 1/4400 of the mass of the earth, hydrogen is not the most common element by weight.

17. Lobo Gris March 23rd, 2007 3:42 pm

    chris March 23rd, 2007 3:10 pm

    “You still have to pay for energy no matter how you get it, so why squander 4 times your energy need because you buy the hook line and sinker that hydrogen is the way to go that Shell Oil is pushing?”

    First of all I haven’t bought anything hook line and sinker. If you bothered to read my posts you will see that what I have advocated as a mix of technologies because I don’t believe that any single technology is the silver bullet that will magically fix everything. Also you seem to have a bias against oil companies. I don’t like some of what they do and have done either but I do want a mix of what works to fuel our future and I’m not willing to reject something solely on the basis that an oil company is proposing it. The oil companies cannot monopolize hydrogen production unless they can lock up the whole coastline around the U.S. (not even within the ballpark of being likely)

    “Secondly, hydrogen is the most common in the universe, and in the sun, but on earth it is way down the list, below oxygen, silicon and aluminum. Even in the oceans, which only make up 1/4400 of the mass of the earth, hydrogen is not the most common element by weight.”

    LOL, measuring by weight is a way to disadvantage hydrogen since hydrogen also happens to be one of the lightest elements. The mass argument is another way to try to artificially disadvantage hydrogen. Of course most of the mass of the earth isn’t water. You could at least be honest in your arguments if you are going to make them. 70% of the earth’s surface is covered by water and water is made up of 2/3 hydrogen, 1/3 oxygen. There is plenty of hydrogen in the ocean, enough to fuel our needs for thousands of years.

    And I will tell that when I see people pushing arguments in what I consider to be a deceptive dishonest way, I start getting suspicious as to just why they are pushing so hard, either for or against something.

    As for having to pay for energy you are right and if ultimately if hydrogen cannot compete economically it will be dropped from the mix.

    The facts are though, hydrogen is abundant, it is pollution free, and it can be produced from pollution free technologies. And in my opinion should certainly be considered as potentially part of the mix of technologies that will hopefully solve our energy problems.

    Lobo Gris

18. Lobo Gris March 23rd, 2007 4:14 pm

    PJD March 23rd, 2007 11:05 am

    Good answers. I still never like putting all of the eggs in one basket though. My experience through life has been that when you do that basket always ends up breaking and then you don’t have any alternative

    I do still believe that we should have a mix and that hydrogen should be part it. Simply for the same reasons that I gave Chris. It is abundant, it is pollution free and it can be produced from pollution free technologies.
    Hydrogen may be less efficient to produce currently but that doesn’t mean it always will be. Also although fuel cells are expensive to produce right now that doesn’t mean that they always will be either and they have the ability to extend the range of electric vehicles without having to use an IC engine as in a hybrid and they don’t have to be plugged in over night.

    Two other sources that I haven’t heard much about recently are geothermal, and wave energy using the ocean tides to produce electricity. I like solar and wind energy because they are pollution free but solar only produces in sunlight and of course wind energy only produces when the wind blows, and that has to be within a range of speeds.

    That indicates to me that we need at least one other source.

    Lobo Gris

19. PJD March 23rd, 2007 10:22 pm

    Well, like I said earlier, totally besides the pollution issues, removal of the car from our cities would have immense quality-of-life benefits. Think of a city where the loudest noise would be that of children playing….

    I moved to such a neighborhood, and it was quite an epiphany.

20. chris March 23rd, 2007 10:26 pm

    Lobo Gris said “There is plenty of hydrogen in the ocean, enough to fuel our needs for thousands of years.”

    Hydrogen is not an energy source, it is an energy storage and transport medium. You won’t fuel our needs for one second by trying to burn the hydrogen that is in the form of water in the ocean.

    The power grid works just fine for energy transport, and hydropower is the most common energy storage, however as soon as multiple millions of battery electric cars are on the road I think we can foresee the electric companies asking us to let them use them for storage.

    What we really need is more solar panels. One estimate is that covering the Sahara with solar panels would provide 55 times the worlds current energy usage. We now have solar panels that can be used as roof tiles, how about ones that can be used for roads and parking lots? If that is too much to ask we can certainly demand that solar panels be used on all roofs and along all highways.

    I am suggesting that hydrogen should be “dropped from the mix” because it is not economically viable, but when there is a profit to be made we often are stuck with non viable choices.

21. Nick Durney March 24th, 2007 3:34 am

    This is the car the automakers refuse to make.
    I heard of this one Fifteen years ago, it was a concept that went like this.
    Design a car that uses off the shelf technology such as linear motors mounted like disk brakes on each wheel. The car will lose two thirds of its’ present weight without the motor and transmission. Power will come from four ordinary car batteries that are recharged by a very small petrol engine driving a fly wheel, there should be an increase in efficiency of a factor of 50, that means 1 tank of petrol will last 1 year. As a bonus, energy can be reclaimed when you brake or slow down. No prizes for guessing why this car never saw the light of day, much better to take over oil rich nations than try to live on less oil.

22. Lobo Gris March 25th, 2007 3:30 am

    chris March 23rd, 2007 10:26 pm

    “Lobo Gris said “There is plenty of hydrogen in the ocean, enough to fuel our needs for thousands of years.”

    Hydrogen is not an energy source, it is an energy storage and transport medium. You won’t fuel our needs for one second by trying to burn the hydrogen that is in the form of water in the ocean.”

    Of course you can’t burn water, but water is 2/3 hydrogen, and 1/3 oxygen. So yes there is plenty of hydrogen in the oceans, the water just has to be cracked to release it.

    “What we really need is more solar panels. One estimate is that covering the Sahara with solar panels would provide 55 times the worlds current energy usage.”

    I’m surprised you aren’t against them too Chris. the best solar cells are only 40% efficient in converting sunlight to energy and too of course they only work during daylight hours. Unlike you I don’t try to slam ideas for a lack of efficiency because as I have said I think we need a mix of all of the technologys and there are things that are more important than just raw efficiency.

    But let’s talk about efficiency for a minute. You complained about IC engines being only 15% efficient in city driving. That of course ignores the fact that not all driving is done in the city, especially in rural America. It also ignores the continuing improvements efficiency improvements in the IC engine, direct injection, variable valve timing, and instant starting (where the engine shuts off automatically in idling situations and instantly restarts by pressing the gas pedal, say at a traffic light) just to name a few. I fully expect with some effort that the IC engine can reach the 40% efficiency level of solar cells. And yes the IC engine will disappear one day but I expect it will be with us for the next 20 to 50 years before it does.

    BTW Chris, how do you propose we fly planes and run ships? Batteries aren’t going to do the trick there.

    P.S. One more of the good things about hydrogen, the one byproduct of hydrogen combustion is water which can be cracked to produce more hydrogen.

    Lobo Gris

23. chris March 26th, 2007 4:40 pm

    This thread has exceeded it’s relevancy. However, it is worthwhile to point out that if transprotation by water was that great we would still be using the Erie Canal. We can anticipate in the hopefully not distant future a rail bridge between Asia and North America. In addition, and at the same time, 90% of air flights will be replaced with magneplane trips because they are faster and cheaper. Both ships and airplanes can be easily powered by biofuels. It is actually criminal to burn petrofuels instead of saving them for use as petrochemicals. Think of it, it took a billion of years to create them and we are squandering them in a century of gluttony. How better can we say a profanity on our descendents? The point is that we have “plenty of energy to burn” as long as we get it from the sun. Otherwise we are just shooting ourselves in the foot. The solutions are out there, we are just avoiding them by listening to nonsense about hydrogen.

24. Bill Dale July 7th, 2007 5:17 pm

    Spencer: 24 comments so far, all by people passionate about the environment. There is disagreement between them, but none of them are in agreement with your use of ethanol in an ICE.

    They have far more agreement that EVs are more sensible, and that is why I will let my UCS membership expire until such time as UCS wakes up and starts supporting EVs rather than trying to “fix” ICEs by making them even more mechanically complex than they already are. As

    No matter what you do to an ICE, it is still complex, still produces pollution, and still pumps out about 18 pounds of carbon dioxide per gallon of fuel that adds to global warming.

    According to The Stanford Daily on April 21,
    your CornMobile poses an even greater threat to human health than gasoline-powered vehicles do, since human lungs are more sensitive to ethanol than to gasoline.

    You have probably heard: if the only tool you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail. If you have never seriously looked at why electric motors are far superior to engines, you’ll just keep trying to use the wrong fixes.

    I don’t know where you live, or what you do. If you want to make cars, you owe it to others not to be trying to use a limited range of solutions. EVs are so much in demand, and they are so easy to build compared to an ICE car, that there is bound to be someone near you that is either driving an EV, or in the process of building one. Stop beating your head against the wall… once you realize what an EV is capable of, you’ll wish you’d never seen an engine.

    There is NO WAY to build an internal combustion engine that is zero- pollution (unless you use hydrogen, but hydrogen has its own immense problems.)

    There’s NO WAY to build an ICE-powered car with one moving part. EVs have been built that can out-perform Ferraris, but still have no moving parts other than their wheels– the motors are integrated into the wheels.

    There’s NO WAY to build an ICE car that does not need a muffler and that’s silent in operation. Perhaps you need to ride in a Tesla, Phoenix, Tango, tZero or Wrightspeed to know that is possible.

    There is NO WAY to deliver the fuel for an ICE over a grid wire. And there is NO WAY to fuel up at home.

    There’s NO WAY to make an ICE that is not a fire hazard in the event of a collision and fuel leakage. Many people die fiery deaths every year in such accidents. The best batteries today do not catch fire or explode if punctured, crushed, overcharged, or baked in an oven at hundreds of degrees.

    There is NO WAY to power an ICE car that can outperform the most powerful sports cars, yet be even more efficient than a Toyota Prius. But typical EV sedans cost less than a penny per day for electricity. Even the biggest, roomiest highway-capable EVs cost less than 3 cents per mile.

    There is NO WAY to use an ICE for several years without several oil changes, oil filters, air filters, tune-ups, smog checks, transmission service, fan belts, coolant flushes and other maintenance. Modern EVs use brushless AC motors. About the only thing you’d need in several years of use might be a new set of bearings, or maybe a shot of lube.

    An ICE has to idle at stop lights, stop signs, in drive-throughs and in traffic jams. EVs only use as much energy as it takes to move a car, so that an EV is very efficient when an ICE is at its worst. And EVs benefit from regenerative braking, which is highly efficient and rechages the battery every time the car stops or slows.

    EVs also have full torque instantaneously even at 0 RPM– that means great acceleration.

    EVs are still in their infancy– which means that with economies of scale, they will drop in price dramatically, just as hard drives, LCDs, DVDs, CPUs, microwave ovens and every other kind of high-tech product has. Last year, the batteries used in EVs were expensive– this year, they have already dropped noticeably, and may drop to just one percent or so of what they cost today.

    Go to a car show, or if you live near the headquarters for Phoenix, Tesla, Wrightspeed, etc., you’ll start to understand the appeal of these cars if you simply go for a test drive.

    Go to YouTube to see EVs competing with the most exotic, expensive sports cars. That will show you they are more than just golf karts, and can take the heaviest of abuse. Check out the world-record holding KillaCycle drag bike, too.

    EVs dominate the road ahead.

25. Bill Dale July 8th, 2007 6:20 pm

    Lobo Gris:
    There are tons of sites on the web that outlines all the reasons that hydrogen is an impractical fuel, and all the problems that would occur with trying to deliver it. For instance, hydrogen requires a far more complex and expensive system from source to fuel tanker to “gas stations” to car… it needs to be stored at cryogenic temperatures and at extreme pressures… you can’t just use the same tanks that store gasoline, biodiesel, etc.

    No one will want to spend billions of dollars to build that infrastructure unless there are already lots of cars ready to buy the fuel. The Catch-22 is that no one will want to buy one of these cars until there is an infrastructure that is already available to sell them the fuel.

    Fuel cells are not even close to ready for market. EVs are completely reliable, super efficient, and fully capable of serving our needs. They are slightly expensive to buy, but that is more than offset by the much lower operating cost.

    The people that are optimistic about hydrogen say that it will be ready anywhere from ten to thirty years from now. EVs are already being sold by numerous companies. Check out Phoenix Motorcars, Tesla, Zap-X Crossover, eBox, tZero, Tango and others. By the time hydrogen is ready– and there is no guarantee it ever will be, the problems with hydrogen are not minor– electric cars will have had at least ten years head start working itself into the market, and they’ll be using the time to reduce their production costs. EVs that are expensive today will be very affordable in two or three years, especially if gasoline prices continue to climb as expected.

    Hydrogen has little hope of ever being as efficient as an electric motor… EVs are already many times more efficient than ICEs, and in the next few years they are likely to become even more efficient as batteries are made lighter and better.

    Hydrogen has many other problems– it’s just not a practical fuel by any means. Don’t take my word for it– look it up yourself. Here’s just one link for you.

    http://www.pbs.org/newshour/science/hydrogen/environment.html

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